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Trance, drugs, and what's 'real'
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
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1383
Posted : Dec 17, 2004 08:53
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Before changing the world, though, we must first become true to ourselves, a process that involves a long and hard look into the depths of our consciousness. To discover ourselves, we should be able to investigate the experience of reflecting upon ourselves, making the I at the same time a thing-in-itself and the representation of it in its experience. A process called by many intellectual intuition.
This intellectual intuition is the immediate awareness that we have of an act while committing it. This intuition must be empty of empirical content as it is examining the faculty of reason that gives rise to the said intuition. More specifically, what intellectual intuition does is put a distance between the I as subject and the I as object, during the act of direct presentation of the I to itself, prior to and independently of any empirical substance. From a practical standpoint, however, we are forced to admit the inexistence of any such intuition in consciousness, present only as an abstract entity that must be reflected upon in order to explain pragmatic consciousness, in which the subject is separate from the object. Intellectual intuition is impossible to realize directly, because if it were, it would be possible to generate a pure I by absolute reflection, a reflection that is objective. The latter is unwelcome, as that would cause the I to lose its total freedom by putting it in conceptual terms, the only way we know how to define something.
Thus, realizing intellectual intuitions lack of immediate effectiveness, consider a continual reflection upon the previous result of the failed generation of the pure I by this act of intuition. This sequence of what seem to be failures at first will yield the total sum of the possibilities of realizing the intended I, exhausting in the process the form of the whole content of experience, where what Kant termed pure intuition took place. This form is precisely the place where the I is to be found, and is the only meaningful notion of nature. Consequently, we might then be enticed to identify the bare I as well, an I prior to the sequence of reflections upon or conceptualizations of it, a pre-conscious I, if possible. On the other hand, the I only becomes established by its own conceiving of itself; therefore, a pre-conscious I would in actuality be nothing, or at least nothing substantial, forcing us to accept instead of such a substantial I outside of consciousness an abstract construction of this bare I alongside the finite concrete individual I that is able to act.
The act of intellectual intuition leads us then to a display of freedom provided by consciousness, making the I so-and-so, because I make it so-and-so, since, as remarked above, the concept of the I is constituted fully by the activity of conceiving the I object by the I subject. Yet, by conceiving an I object, the I subject develops and changes itself, a self that is also the object of its experience. But, if this object is changed, the experiencing of it must be different than at first, further modifying the I subject, and so on ad infinitum. The I is thus an act whose sole purpose is itself, expressing its utter and complete freedom in this act. Intellectual intuition, hence, is a tool for looking inside this act and the experience it encompasses, but is nothing more than a tool, pointing to no specific answer within the I.
Sorry about the overabundance of "I"'s, but it is best if confusion is to be avoided.  Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Dec 17, 2004 16:18
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I have this *vague* sense that everything you've written is about what I've been experiencing in the past few years - mainly the realization that "I" am but a concept of my mind and nothing more.
All of a sudden there was born in my mind a watcher, an observer, something that starting watching the "I" and noting things about it.
It's driving the "I" crazy too, 'cause it knows it's being watched.
*watcher giggles at the I - eye? AYE!* |
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ajna
Started Topics :
1
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71
Posted : Dec 17, 2004 16:52
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Your ex "goahead" friend is neither wrong or right...but leaving goa scene for a religion can't be right...maybe right for him at a particular time.
You can fool yourself as much in drug abuse than in religion beliefs without drugs.
every paths has numerous steps.
at least goa trance scene leaves you a minimum of freedom.
the point is not about drugs.
the point is not about dance.
the point is not about goa.
important is just love and consciousness.
try to consider different points of view on what is "real" and what is "fake". what is reality. what are realities. what are dimensions.what are language, words and concepts. what is your "science", where does it come from, who does it come from, where does it lead ? human science is just a new religion for power and money. the only true science is the one written in your atoms, not the temporary "truths" of some pretentious and egotic mind of an specific era. With meditation and love you can have every answer that you need.
the illusion is not the world but our perception of it.
I was a deep psyche trancer/organiser/dj in paris,france from 92 to 98 then I left the scene but never the spirit.
the goa trance scene is far more than what you think of it.
next years will tell about it.
do what you like.
do what you burn for.
be creative, free and loving.
do not think too much and loose yourself in intellect.
use your mind as a sharp defender of your freedom..do not believe tv and scientists.
love yourself, love others, love animals, plants, the earth, the cosmos and act based on this love, then whatever you do will not be lost.
nothing is never lost.
what you xperience under lsd is not illusion.
what does that means being mad ?!
what is illusion ?!
what is hallucination ?!
goa movement is all but fake.
nothing is never completly constructive or destructive.
an interressant possibility of answer to you:
check at: www.erowid.org/culture & arts/ dancing/can trance dancing save the planet?
love to all of you
ajna
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gatsby
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
178
Posted : Dec 17, 2004 17:42
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Some people need more structure than others.
Some are Faustian visionaries who can move through the forest with their own guidance system. Other people, maybe most people, need to follow someone else most of the time.
The best for these would be to find a spiritual community that accepts the validity of psychedelics and dance, yet offers a way to explore those with some guidance and a stable community.
That would help some but not all. |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
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783
Posted : Dec 17, 2004 21:02
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Yeah- i guess i feel like that guy is copping out to the mainstream idea about externally defined spirituality through religion.
the lessons i learned through my OWN trance dancing experiences are that any external reference points will fail at some point.
they are only potential entry and exit points in terms of stimulus on ones personal path.
I think even the trance scene can be a mirage and illusion/maya at some point along the path.
if he or anyone is looking outside their own experience for something "real" they are going to be dissapointed when it lets them down, which it surely will...
externalized spirituality in the form of religion strikes me as symptomatic of a certain human sickness- we have an internal compass for a reason. listen to it.
i happen to feel that this external experience we are having is connected to some larger thing and that spirit reveals herself continiously. don't get addicted to any one particular form as she may change shape...
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Jenna
Started Topics :
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3
Posted : Dec 17, 2004 22:11
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I think that the music is what matters most. If you are at a party, it should be for the music, yeah the community is important, but really its the music. If you can dance and lose yourself in the music and feel transcended then it is real. Everything else is secondary in my opinion, the deco, although I love the spirtual images, is just an added plus. The "scene" is just that, it is a scene, and it will always change, and people will come and go. The music is it, if it moves you, changes your vibration and inspires you, then surely you cannot be wasting your time. Its not about the location of the party, or the drugs, which can be a useful tool or a distraction. Religion and spirtuality is a whole nother subject. It is a personal quest, with many paths for many people, some have a particular spirtual practice they bring to the scene, some think the music is their religion, whatever, again that really does not matter. Images of indian dieties at parties really is paying homage and respect to Goa, where trance music orginated, and the first trance dance parties were created. Its all about the music, and if you focus on that, nothing else really matters. |
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rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
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2184
Posted : Dec 18, 2004 03:45
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I know people who have found their own way of worship after psytrance. One person returned to his Christian faith, becoming actively involved with his Church. Another went on to study Hinduism and immerse himself in the religion. I heard of one person who went on to become a Rabbi.
I think there's nothing wrong with having psytrance be a stepping stone or inspiration for continued spiritual growth. Just as long as it isn't belittled after the fact, like that Jim guy is apparently doing. If he is truly happy where he is you would think he give thanks for having psytrance be part of the path that led him to where he is now.
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ondianz
Started Topics :
1
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19
Posted : Feb 4, 2005 21:20
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this thread is one of the most positive that i've read so far, when everything else is about the complaints and arguments of personal tastes. this thread touches deep inside my heart when there are others that feels all is not lost.
keep the vibe alive, it is more than what one sees on the outside, it's what we feel inside that's real.
What you are now is what you have been, what you will be is what you do now.
Buddha |
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goadevotee
Started Topics :
6
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197
Posted : Feb 5, 2005 06:20
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Quote:
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On 2004-12-17 22:11, Jenna wrote:
I think that the music is what matters most. If you are at a party, it should be for the music, yeah the community is important, but really its the music. If you can dance and lose yourself in the music and feel transcended then it is real. Everything else is secondary in my opinion, the deco, although I love the spirtual images, is just an added plus. The "scene" is just that, it is a scene, and it will always change, and people will come and go. The music is it, if it moves you, changes your vibration and inspires you, then surely you cannot be wasting your time. Its not about the location of the party, or the drugs, which can be a useful tool or a distraction. Religion and spirtuality is a whole nother subject. It is a personal quest, with many paths for many people, some have a particular spirtual practice they bring to the scene, some think the music is their religion, whatever, again that really does not matter. Images of indian dieties at parties really is paying homage and respect to Goa, where trance music orginated, and the first trance dance parties were created. Its all about the music, and if you focus on that, nothing else really matters.
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not to say you are wrong about what you feel, but i dont think it is all about the music. with the music and a little light and color to stimulate and positive human energy th psy experience is created. maybe im just an artist and this is my belief. but many people have told me many comments of light journeys they have had just looking into one banner. dont get me wrong the music is at the top of the list but there is more.
love and light
devotee
www.touchsamadhi.com |
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Nelito
Started Topics :
1
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188
Posted : Feb 6, 2005 02:14
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very interisting.You ARE A VERY LUCK PEOPLE<YOU CAN EXPRESS YOURSELF.Now...amigo...we don't need to go all away tru.Go dance,go see your friends,go for the beat and you will be fine.Use as fun and not as a brain cirurgy.Exlent writing.Peace ,manny. |
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Pisces1979
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
206
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 01:28
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Goa trance can't solve your problems, but it makes an interesting soundtrack to your life. |
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Nelito
Started Topics :
1
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188
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 05:24
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hehe...that is what is all aboutt,you get old and you remember all. even on slow motion...focus on what kind of music u like better...some down tempo will help..go dance partner.peace.m. |
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Analyzer
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
247
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 06:59
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On 2004-12-17 21:02, ocelot wrote:
if he or anyone is looking outside their own experience for something "real" they are going to be dissapointed when it lets them down, which it surely will...
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That is smth i have personally feared for a long long time....its what u realise not when ur being pessimistic but realistic.
What foundation do we rest our hopes on? Faith? Does faith provide the enrgy...or is there some logic that supports it?
Why do we believe that it exists? Why do we presume there is more than what meets the eye?
If spirtuality can be achieved via this medium, why do we not have a light, a leader...why must we discover it on our own...is it because it is personal...well then is it a culture? Then its a similarity, a link perhaps, but not a religion.
IMHO, its an outlet, a channel, something to look forward to, a responsible memmory to support you, drive you...yet smth that can get out of hand lest left uncontained.
We grow, there is no doubt we grow, yet do many of us persevere over an irrational belief? Some of us our weak, does the system support them, no. Does it guide them, most often: no. Yet we persist.
Where is the evidence, st8 it, why do you'll who persist... still believe...what makes it plausible? Where are the threads of the system u see?
Forgive my confusion.
Boom.
Never hold it in. |
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1383
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 07:23
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Quote:
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On 2004-12-17 21:02, ocelot wrote:
if he or anyone is looking outside their own experience for something "real" they are going to be dissapointed when it lets them down, which it surely will...
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However, you will be very much pleased once you realize that there is no "real". There is no big metaphysical "truth" out there.
There are only little semi-truths that are true for you and that give meaning to what you do, because there is no big meaning, and thank God (little slip of the tongue there) there isn't. It is so much more worthwhile this way.
Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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Eklypz
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
359
Posted : Feb 11, 2005 01:17
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-10 07:23, furthur wrote:
However, you will be very much pleased once you realize that there is no "real". There is no big metaphysical "truth" out there.
There are only little semi-truths that are true for you and that give meaning to what you do, because there is no big meaning, and thank God (little slip of the tongue there) there isn't. It is so much more worthwhile this way.
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Oh sure ruin it for the rest of us 
A saying comes to it, "The whole is made up of the sum of it's parts" or something like that.
But _I_ do not want to taint anyones path without meeting them in person ;P |
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