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Tracks that change scale
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Alex - Aural Invasion
Aural Invasion
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
514
Posted : Mar 24, 2007 19:39
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i've started experimententing using 2 scales in some projects, and i could use some inspiration on this. Can anyone mention some tracks for me that uses 2 different scales? Thx!
  myspace.com/auralinvasion
reverbnation.com/auralinvasion
www.aural-invasion.com |
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Mar 24, 2007 20:08
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you're talking about key changes?
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Hodi
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
114
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1212
Posted : Mar 24, 2007 23:10
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i advise, when transposing into another scale - use the parrellal minor/major scale
for example, if u start at C Major move to A Minor
it's quite common in classical music too.
creates such a surprise.. when u play major all the way and then suddenly a minor melody enters..
u can find "Anything U Want" using the search... |
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Alex - Aural Invasion
Aural Invasion
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
514
Posted : Mar 25, 2007 01:29
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Mike A: No i'm talking about changing scale in general, but in this particular thought i'm thinking of changing scale in the same key.
Hodi: thx for the advise. I'm thinking like going from ex. an F-Minor scale to an F-Phrygian Scale, then back to F-Minor (just an example).
All i want is to hear some other tracks using different scales, if someone can mention some it would be very appreciated! 
Also, what do you think of tracks changing scale (if done properly) compared to tracks in the same scale ? more interesting or to difficult to compare maybe?
myspace.com/auralinvasion
reverbnation.com/auralinvasion
www.aural-invasion.com |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Mar 25, 2007 09:39
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Quote:
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Also, what do you think of tracks changing scale (if done properly) compared to tracks in the same scale ? more interesting or to difficult to compare maybe?
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i think its defo intresting idea, but indeed hard to compare, there's good melodic psy and good non melodic psy, all depends on the individual track imo
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
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981
Posted : Mar 25, 2007 18:56
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I do it all time. I regularly have a long melody structure that deviate and resolves to the correct key - which is a fantastic tension and release feature. Catchy melodies are my best skill, just need to bring the rest of the track up to the same level..
I love music without melody too, all rhythm, great samples, great rhythmic twists.. But personally I'm a melodic guy - I couldn't do a track without a hook, it's just me.
Resolving deviations in scales are great, but a whole scale shift is pretty hard to pull off. I'd go by ear with that one - you can't say 'I'm going to write a melody with these two scales', it's very hard to know what you want before you do it in music. Lot's of practice needed to get from head to PC in my experience. |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Mar 25, 2007 19:13
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Alex - Aural Invasion
Aural Invasion
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
514
Posted : Mar 25, 2007 20:28
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Tomos > i feel exactly the same, i also cant make a groove without some kind of hook
a long melody structure that deviates and resolves back to the original scale, yes this is what im talking about. I know how to do this, im just curious about tracks with this structure cause i havent noticed any doing it really. Can i hear some of your work?
Boobytrip > Thx, but i know most theoretical, its tracks im seeking
myspace.com/auralinvasion
reverbnation.com/auralinvasion
www.aural-invasion.com |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Mar 25, 2007 21:14
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Sorry for acting like a broken record, I should have read the question first.
I think there are only few tracks that do what you mean tho, most of the time there's one scale in a track because otherwise the track looses tonal consistency, which makes it very hard to make it work. If you find something i'm very curious how it sounds.
Happy hunting !
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
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981
Posted : Mar 26, 2007 00:49
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Alex - PM me your email/msn and I'll send you a track.
It's a deviating C minor melody that has a lovely resolve.. in my opinion anyway
Echoing Boobytrip - a complete change of scale really breaks the flow, key change for a few bars, fair enough, but shifting scales is a nightmare to pull off. Does it make you clever.. depends on how good your melodies are I guess! |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Mar 26, 2007 01:11
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Try and find scales that fit nicely into eachother and with very similar notes and you shouldn't have a problem. Like if you play phrygian mode it fits really nicely over a pentatonic which is exactly the same minus a couple of notes. In this case the sound of the resolve is very different as your phrygian mode has the flat second which has a crazy kind of tension whereas pentatonic is so damn musical to all ears. Mood shift guaranteed with minimal modulation.
The relative minor trick is also very nice and effective.
If you want it to sound adventurous you can but I think it will be quite hard to make it work. say you can have a sound that changes into another and as it does that it changes scale as well so you get a nice morphing effect.
Can't think of any tracks off the top of my head though... sorry  |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 26, 2007 10:03
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The name of what ur talking about is actually called modulation. Although the context is in the strict music sense.
you can modulate between keys(scales) based on similarity of the keys. for example the reason why its so easy to modulate from a minor to a phrygian is because theres only one key(note) different in the scale.
Generally its easy to modulate between keys that have at least a 3 key similarity, any less and it sounds too weird. Generally the easiest way to modulate is to choose a chord that exists in both keys(scales) and then enter the "pivot" chord from the one scale and then afterwards directly play a chord from the other scale.
There is a list of easy modulations.(which I would have to look up for you for the weirder stuff)
Generally every fifth you modulate down or up, yields 1 different note between scales, so if you modulate up/down 3 fifths u will get 3 different notes between scales.
down 5 and up 5 notes yields 1 key(note) difference between scales. (which is pleasing to the ears) ( this means you modulate from C to F (down5) or from C to G (up5)).
down 5 and 5 again or up 5 and 5 again(this equates to 1 key(scale) down or up because of octave wrapping) yields 2 keys(notes) difference... etc, basically the more 5ths you go up/down the more keys will be disimilar between scales.
An example modulating to a phrygian from a minor key is the same as modulating down 5 and setting your root to the fifth of the new minor key(scale), although the new key is called the phrygian mode of the old key.
My practical experience with modulations is that its easiest to do them by only playing the notes that are the same in both keys(scales) while you are in the process of modulation.
I hope I havent confused too much. in essence what Im trying to say is, once you understand that you're changing scales based on similarity, you will no longer feel constrained by any scale(you can modulate from any scale to any other scale if you do it gradually over a couple of steps), and understand that its all relative anyway. feel free to modulate any time, just as long as you know what works with what you should have no problems. |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Mar 26, 2007 21:07
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Quote:
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On 2007-03-26 10:03, bukboy wrote:
My practical experience with modulations is that its easiest to do them by only playing the notes that are the same in both keys(scales) while you are in the process of modulation.
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Yeah, that's what i meant , you use the same set of intervals throughout the track, although you can change the tonic to imply different scales. Like C major and A minor have the same notes, but start on different tonics. It can sound good if you throw in a few chromatic notes that fall inbetween the notes of the scale (i actually meant the fixed set of intervals) used in the track, but if you overdo it the track will lose its tonality and it becomes very hard to resolve tension.
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Alex - Aural Invasion
Aural Invasion
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
514
Posted : Mar 26, 2007 21:21
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Very interesting reading, thx for your examples and suggestions.
myspace.com/auralinvasion
reverbnation.com/auralinvasion
www.aural-invasion.com |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 27, 2007 12:49
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The whole theoretical explanation of why scales work is rooted in harmonic series.
basically the harmonics of the root are notes in the major or minor or any scale.(conditions apply )
for example the 1st harmonic of C1 is C2 the second is G2 the 3rd is C3 the the fourth is E3 the fifth is C4, the sixth is ....
basically the notes of a scale.
The reason some notes sound like they clash with the scale is coz the use frequencies that are not in the bass note.
stability is defined as measure of need to return to consonance with the root notes' frequencies.
Based on the harmonic series the stability of a note is dependent on how many times it is present in the series. the most stable notes are the 1st(root), 5th, 3rd, 6th, 2nd, 4th and 7th in that order where 7th is least stable. THIS IS ASSUMING A MAJOR SCALE.
similarly chord stabilities work on combinations of these notes, like the root chord made up of 1,3,5 is the most stable since its made up of the most stable tones, whereas the 7th chord (like Bdim in C major) is the most unstable in a major and is made up of the most unstable notes 7th, 4th and 2nd.
also everything that is non diatonic is more unstable than diatonic stuff.
this is Y staying in a scale sounds so nice. but also very boring.
Playing non diatonic(notes that are not in the scale) notes does sound dissonant, but it is a tool which can setup tension to return to stability, or set a general dark discordant atmosphere. But nothing is prohibited. |
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