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Track arrangement.
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sp0ok
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
114
Posted : Aug 28, 2009 15:08:44
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You guys got to save me. I'm just not able to compose more than 1 minute of a full on track. Can you guys share with me your techniques of composing ? I'm really stuck and I don't see any direction beyond kicks hats effects bassline and lead.
  "Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth."
Neo: "What truth?"
Spoon Boy: "There is no spoon." |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Aug 28, 2009 15:16
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What exactly are you stuck on? You have all the sound elements except for pads.
Try taking an 8 bar section you have written, duplicating it, then messing with the arrangement of the sounds you have or replace the sounds you have with new ones.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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sp0ok
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
114
Posted : Aug 28, 2009 15:57
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i guess my problem is transitioning from one bassline to another or from one lead to another. it somehow doesn't seem to sync or sound correct. how do i effectively use pads in a song ?
"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth."
Neo: "What truth?"
Spoon Boy: "There is no spoon." |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Aug 28, 2009 17:13
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Pads are just kinda background noise (in some instances). Just something to sweep through your other sounds. A simple waveform (saw, sine, square) with a slow lfo (1/1, 2/1, etc) usually suffices.
By they don't seem to sync or sound correct do you just mean that the leads you make don't seem to work well with each other or they are actually off the beat?
If you're having trouble making different leads sound good together in a track try just making one lead, duplicating that channel, then doing some tweaks to the synth (change the filter type, change the waveform(s), change the cutoff freq, change the release amount on the envelope, etc). I've had some pretty good success with this where I can get leads that flow together, but still sound different.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Aug 28, 2009 17:14
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continuity vs contrast - the key is to keep the devices used in the relevant section consistent with the intent.
you shouldnt mix slow pads with with very energetic noisy leads. coz it confuses the listener. (But it may entirely be appropriate if you WANT to confuse)
imagine the sound of a voice or the movements of a dancer expressing the mood/energy of what you want to transmit. And make all the instruments do that.
ANGRY!!!! ANGRY!!!! AAARGH!!!!
mellllloooow chiiiilllled
sexy groovey
All the instruments should reinforce each other.
And then when you want to change you only have two choices, increase/decrease the effects, or do a contrast and start from the other side.
proper arrangement requires emotional insight into the effects caused by the instruments in the listeners. If you have those insights then you can do arrangement if you have a plan for the track.
Ciao
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sp0ok
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
114
Posted : Aug 30, 2009 16:02
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Thank you for the advice bukboy and ascension.
As of now i have a 4 bar bassline and a 4 bar lead along with my percussions and pads.
The key i have used is G. and my lead, bass is also written along G.I bring in all these elements one by one and then once i've done that i'm stuck.
My question is how do add variation and transition after this.
How do i create effects ? are there any effect specific banks for vangaurd that will help me learn ? 
"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth."
Neo: "What truth?"
Spoon Boy: "There is no spoon." |
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onionbrain
Onionbrain
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
316
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 00:54
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you can, for example, do a little break (1 bar) and come back with :
1) only kick and bassline, and restart the progression, in another way (and another elements too)
2) everything, but changing some element slighty, (bassline, for example, changing only 1 note or so.. ) |
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
Started Topics :
127
Posts :
1132
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 00:58
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 07:17
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Spook - I think the quickest learning at the beginning is gotten by emulating what others do, then applying the lessons to your own stuff.
so 1st prize. Find a producer friend close to you and ask him to show you his work flow. You will learn a lot more things that you never thought about this way (than you think !  ).
OR
put a few tracks you like into a daw like live, and then try to reconstruct all the instruments. This will give you some experience with a working tune.
If you still think you like it after that, then do some theory of synthesizers, music (harmony, counterpoint) And if you want to learn anything I suggest you actually do it.
The trick as in any genre is to find a sound exactly like what the dancer already expects to hear but subtly different, and cooler. The catch is that it takes a LOT of time, that you could instead be using to start a real paying career.
Ciao |
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sp0ok
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
114
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 07:58
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Quote:
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On 2009-08-31 00:58, Medea wrote:
stretch all your loops for 8 minutes, then split them, cut out what you don't need and add fx and breaks.
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@Medea :Thanks. =) If I do this don't you think it'll sound too monotonous ? I'd like to build my track up to a point where I can introduce a melody.
How do I synthesize effects like swooshes ? I know i must use delay reverb. but what waveform ?
"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth."
Neo: "What truth?"
Spoon Boy: "There is no spoon." |
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sp0ok
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
114
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 08:08
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Quote:
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On 2009-08-31 07:17, bukboy wrote:
Spook - I think the quickest learning at the beginning is gotten by emulating what others do, then applying the lessons to your own stuff.
so 1st prize. Find a producer friend close to you and ask him to show you his work flow. You will learn a lot more things that you never thought about this way (than you think ! ).
OR
put a few tracks you like into a daw like live, and then try to reconstruct all the instruments. This will give you some experience with a working tune.
If you still think you like it after that, then do some theory of synthesizers, music (harmony, counterpoint) And if you want to learn anything I suggest you actually do it.
The trick as in any genre is to find a sound exactly like what the dancer already expects to hear but subtly different, and cooler. The catch is that it takes a LOT of time, that you could instead be using to start a real paying career.
Ciao
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Thanks bukboy.
I have started making an excelsheet to study my favourite tracks. I guess this seems to help me understand how a particular track was built. I also need to study a lot of music theory and how song arrangement is done in general.
I don't know any EDM producers who live close to me. Moreover, I doubt any producer would want to share his project/workflow with me.
"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth."
Neo: "What truth?"
Spoon Boy: "There is no spoon." |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 09:40
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spook - I think real producers, who are real musicians, are not insecure about sharing their workflow with a friend or a generally nice guy.
At least in my experience, muso's are very excited about what they do and are more than willing to share the stuff that they don't pay for, like their bits of knowledge and patches.
After all, the music is created using tools, so no matter whether you use someone else's tools or not, you'll come up with a creation of your own.
At the same time, dont become a nuisance. Its tit for tat. Im sure you wouldn't like to spend time with someone who didn't have any redeeming features.
Ciao
P.S. there is always an element of competition, when it comes to the bottom line. Still, hippies are all about sharing. |
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Radioactive.Cake
Radioactive Cake
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
85
Posted : Aug 31, 2009 18:28
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yes ! i'd totally agree with you, bukboy. in my first years i asked a lot of people and even musicians i met at events. nowadays there is myspace and stuff, it's really easy to talk to them.
some month ago i tried to reach some australian artists (who nearly are inventors of a whole new genre for me *hehe*) just to exchange knowledge and get some infos about their way of producing. and the most of them answered...
and to do this can be important even for very established acts because of gettings the "asskick" to break the own boundaries.
i know this has nothing to do with your topic but i want to recommend you to talk to artists you like to listen to !
Radioactive.Cake - intelligent dark minimal psygressive
http://www.glitchytonicrecords.com
Zeitgeist - Munstrous - Dark Passenger |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
108
Posts :
1069
Posted : Sep 2, 2009 05:27
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i work with a concept of 8 bar loop
to begin the music i will work in a loop of 8 bar which will problably be the PEAK of the music....
after that very short loop s awesome and trip i ll start to make a second loop of 8 bars with 1 or 2 elements frmo the old loop which will give me a totaly new loop , theeeeen again , i ll get 1 or 2 elements from that loop and make the 3rd loop totaly fresh....
okay now we have 3 loops... each loop will be one part of the track , and its up to u which one will be the first , the second and the 3rd part of the track but now each loop will be stretched usualy to 32 bars where u ll make the "game" of addin the sinths every 8 bar till u get in the last 8 bar where all elements of that loop will be playin together.... and then u have to make the bridge to the next loop .....to make the connections beetween the 3 different parts u ve made...
just remember to make 3 loops in ur project and each one would be like if u were makin a totaly new music... but in the end u are going to connect them ....
welll i dont know if i was able to explain it right coz my tecnical english aint very good buuut i hope i ve helpt...
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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