| Author
|
too much emphasis on bassline?
|
fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Oct 25, 2004 18:17
|
It's interesting to me how the DJ seems to have risen in psytrance as... the most important aspect.
Don't get me wrong, I have incredible respect for the individuals who get up behind the decks and take us stompers on a journey, but that respect is lessened when I see that person become the focus of the party, rather than the journery itself being the focus.
This feeling reached it's peak watching Astral Projection do a 'live' set when one of the members (don't remember his name) braced himself over the mixing console with this *intense* look on his face while he... turned a knob. That's it, it was just a filter sweep happening in the song, and he stood there sloooooooowly turning the knob with this look of pain/pleasure plastered all over his face. The phrase changed and he flopped down as if finishing orgasming and just LAID on the mixing console for another phrase...
It felt so... fake, like a performance. My impression is that it was a total EGO trip and killed any trance experience of egolessness that I was enjoying at the moment.
(Afterwards there were rumors from the guys of whether or not the gear was even plugged in, but that's unsubstatiated...)
Hmm, that comes across more bitter than amusing - rest assured I was smiling and laughing (the expression on his face was priceless - "oh God oh God the sweep is coming, I'm coming, oh GOD!" *flop*). 
My point regarding DJing influencing the genre: why do people make such a big deal about the headliners or the DJs? Isn't it about the vibe? The mutual sense of selflessness/unity? I don't mean this as cheesey rave PLUR, but a serious message of global consciousness/evolution that to me *defines* the goa/psytrance scene.
Has goa turned in to psytrance because goa was just too damned hard to DJ?
Can a genre that focuses on the DJ as seperate of the trance-dance experience truly cultivate an atmosphere of egolessness?
Interesting questions...
I think I will purposefully write music that is difficult to DJ. The new motto: "mix in the intro or don't mix it in!"
peace,
-Alex
Good thread! |
|
|
Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 25, 2004 18:41
|
Quote:
|
On 2004-10-25 17:55, Woggle wrote:
ahh, 2 things said well here that have made me think more.
What i propose is that it's easier to make basslines before, which is why people had the ability to make creative basslines. Now i feel people aren't making creative basslines, because it takes so much effort to make a simple one sound good....
|
|
I can't agree at all. You had to use expensive equipment to make a really tight kick and bass, and I always had more difficulty getting a reallty tight bass with analogue synths.
Sure they are warm and fat, but some new digital envelopes is amazingly punchy and will instanly produce a really tight bass or kick.
How can it be more difficult to make nowadays. If it was easy before, why not just do like that still?
Basically what I think is that it was harder to make a straight simple bassline before, because it just wouldn't sound impressive with the sound you could get. Nowadays it can feel sufficient with a straight 16th bass because the sound is so good. But i think ppl with get bored soon with a straight bass, no matter how good it sounds.
And I agree about livesets and the focus on DJ'ing.
Livsets never been anything that I actually enjoyed myself in a party.
I don't want the attention on someone twisting some knob on a barely audible sweep making a big show of it. It disturbs my experince more than it adds. I even went so far when making parties that I was completly hiding the DJ, to great effect I belive.
What I am hoping for though, that could improve the situation is that now when the technology reached the level it is at now, it is possible to actually make really live quite advanced trance music.
Basically not only twisting the knobs, but building the tracks in realtime from stuff you prepared earlier. That would make DJ'ing and producing/live fuse together, and improve them both at the same time.
 (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
|
|
|
Woggle
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
88
Posted : Oct 25, 2004 19:07
|
I do all my stuff pretty much live, it's more fun, i really enjoy a live set, when it's live and not a dat being played, btwi saw astral projection do some funny stuff in ny too, and the amazing thing is the crowd was too drugged up to even hear!... basically they started playing when the DJ WAS STILL ON! making believe they were playing a track that wasn't theres, and then they tried to paly the sh101, oh god, was that a nightmare, never seen somone not know what they wer doing on an sh101 so much
i love love sets tho out at a party, i think theyre great, but sometimes the ones with A PC, it's lame....
but on the analog tightness thing. The reason why people don't do it anymore is becuase analog is A LOT more expensive. there are also only a few synth that do a good psy/goa bassline, sh101, pro one, juno60, juno106, the rest don't really do great basslines, mind a few, but on the whole those are the few synths with a quick enough envelope.
I do not hear any bass with any soft synth it's the eQ that does it:-) and the overcompression.
i really will not agree with the bassline digital is better... i own too many analogs to think somethin silly like that;p |
|
|
|
Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 25, 2004 19:33
|
I bought my fathers pro-one when i was 12, and i used it for basses many times. That thing definatly needed some good compression and EQ to be tight, and the envelopes is not nearly as punchy as what I use now.
I used all the machines you mentioned, and always had to struggle to get good bass.
I really don't need either EQ or compression with the tools i use today.
Maybe we just like different types of basses. For me punch is more important than softness and warmth most of the time.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
|
|
|
Woggle
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
88
Posted : Oct 25, 2004 19:49
|
|
non punchy pro one?!:O maybe yours needs calibration:D just use no resonance, cutoff so no harmonics come out, no attack, no decay, just sustain some portamento and boost low end a little on analog eq, and u can get just about any of the basslines out today, after that it's all about how u play it:-) |
|
|
|
Woggle
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
88
Posted : Oct 25, 2004 19:50
|
|
then again the talk on how the bassline arrises is a whole nother thread;-) |
|
|
|
Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 25, 2004 19:55
|
Have you heard the flexor modular plugins for pulsar?
Compare what you can do with those and the pro-one.
It's not about that i use plenty of resonance and the envelope on wrong settings on the pro-one, I'm talking about the response in the envelopes.
I have been doing electronic dance music since the end of 80's, and used plenty of different analogue synths thru the years, and thats what I experience anyway. (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
|
|
|
Triptocoma
Inactive User
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
296
Posted : Oct 25, 2004 23:49
|
All i got to say right now is:
We all have different visions, we all have different struggles... lets follow our own visions... lets struggle our own struggles...
do what ever feels good for you and dont try to force your opinion on others... which i kind of sense that you are doing sometimes Woggle... no ofense here, i see your good intention... you just want your vision to involve us all...
or am i completely out of line Woggle? if so im sorry and im prepared to take it back
laters...
|
|
|
|
Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Oct 26, 2004 09:55
|
Why would you mind if a DJ is having an ego trip when you're egoless yourself ? Let the guy or girl enjoy it. Egotrips rule (As long as they keep playing the right music at the right time). Most of the time i prefer a dj over a liveset because a dj is able to select tracks from a huge collection of music and can play much more diverse tracks then someone who's doing a liveset of his or her own music.
Waggle: a LOT of timeless tracks have been written since Hallucinogens LSD imho. But let's not talk about it too much and start write some timeless tracks ourselves. I'm very curious about your music btw. Do you have some on-line or released somewhere ? |
|
|
|
Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Oct 26, 2004 09:58
|
|
Woggle
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
88
Posted : Oct 26, 2004 18:26
|
name a timeless track that has come out in the past 3 years:-) that has "killer bassline" heh...
DJs are artists when not in psy, i've never heard a good dj in psy, i'm sorry to say, but psy djs are like industrial DJs, they're not very talented but there just to prolong the music...
if u wanna hear good djs listen to hip hop or techno.
I def. prefer a live set, as it's more interseting, and you get to know what you're in for that night. sometimes i jsut get a dj that bores the hell out of me with shitty track sellection, and then switches out the track before the greatest part...and butchers and RUINs the music!>_<
but sometimes that's not permissive if out in nature for a live set, so a dj is needed
I guess i do do that tripmatic, i do emphasize my opinions, but that's the point of a forum where we're exchanging ideas, no?:o I could just sit in my closet and not hear anyone's opinions if i wanted, but waht fun would that be?:-)
btw u know what's really funny about that site and the combination of psy, well for one thing, simply using records.
remember sven vath, when was it 95 where he brought all his vinyl from germany to goa to try and take it over as "#1 goa dj!" and all his records got ruined?:-)
goa+records = don't mix together well:D
i'm just really sick of djs thinking they're something better than they are. They glorify themselves so much.
btw, egotrips for djs is bad, no good dj has them. Because a good dj realizes he's not djing for himself, but djing for the people at the party. unless you're ah ip hop dj then it's all about the skill;-)
but the worst shit is wheen u get a dj only playing shit HE wants to hear, and doesn't care that no one is getting into it.
what's amazing is to see some djs who never even look at the crowd to see if they're enjoying it, as if they don't care, only caring for themselves. that is shit.
Soon it's going to become like raves, raves died becuase they overmphasized the dj, and there became a "Rockstar" of the music. shit got so bad because of that...
I hope this never happens to psy tho... as it does seem that psy is as big as it's ever been now, no? in terms of popularity, but there is a hollowness, there lacks any true soul or emotion in the current music...
|
|
|
|
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Oct 26, 2004 18:55
|
|
Man there is a lot of good dj in psy , like in all kind of electronic music, the fact is you can t cut a track after 2 minutes ..the track is a story you have to wait the end and in trance there are sound in all frequency , i mean it s not based only on ryhtmics so a lot more diffcult to do some style in your mix. |
|
|
|
Psyrap
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
70
Posted : Oct 26, 2004 22:28
|
Quote:
|
On 2004-10-26 18:55, PoM wrote:
, the fact is you can t cut a track after 2 minutes ..the track is a story you have to wait the end and in trance ,i mean it s not based only on ryhtmics so a lot more diffcult to do some style in your mix.
|
|
man this is completly not true, i have seen djs, that change tracks every 3 minuts and they build the story from diffrent parts of track, was amazing. and trance is build Most on rhytmic, 4 2 the floor man....if you are a top dj you have top mixing skills, and you can mix anything you like. |
|
|
|
piXan
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
107
Posts :
807
Posted : Oct 27, 2004 02:36
|
Quote:
|
Most of the time i prefer a dj over a liveset because a dj is able to select tracks from a huge collection of music and can play much more diverse tracks then someone who's doing a liveset of his or her own music.
|
|
whoa, i hope not all people think like this, i always loved and still do , people performing their own music, thats the real feeling-..i know djs are necessary in trance but come on... is definetely not the same hearing the real thing from the mind who created this over some guy who just plays it. i guess that maybe trance its getting less into a musical thing and more into technical matter. |
|
|
|
Woggle
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
88
Posted : Oct 27, 2004 03:51
|
ahh pixan I think u just said it excellently
" I guess that maybe trance its getting less into a musical thing and more into technical matter. "
Maybe this is what's behind the whole thread, the underlying feeling?:-)
and btw, unless you're mixing 2 monophonic synth lines how is any dj going to combine 2 melodies that don't belong together?:-) how!?:D and even if it's monophonic it's still extremely hard to...
that is to make it sound right, but a lot of djs dont' understand the musical aspect, so they butcher the music and destroy the effect that the people whose blood+sweat went into making it. |
|
|
|
|
