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too much emphasis on bassline?
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Woggle
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88
Posted : Oct 24, 2004 17:51
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anyone else see this? I see too many people worrying about a bassline this bassline that. And it's ruining the music. I am thinkin maybe it's because people are using VSTs on a whole for their bassline and they have to use tricsk to get a good bassline? but if u use an sh101 and an analog eq, that same bassline that took a while to get perfect on vsts takes 1 second to get shat out.
I don't hear much from newer producers about other qualities of the track? just basically about mastering qualities? as if the basic sound is more superior to an actually well constructed musical piece?
I guess this is more or less against the over emphasis on the quality of sound vs the musicality of the tracks. But the bassline seems the most emininent part. All i hear lately is "this bassline is nuts!" or "listen to that bass drum!" but, who cares? in month it'll be out done. Is that what psy has come down to? whether your bassline has been eqed that little bit extra? and not the musical element? I personally think the new basslines f'n suck, and aren't interesting when they're so steady...
Sorry but i keep reading and i see the same old shit over and over again. Perhaps it's the time it takes to make basslines with the VSTS that make people passionate about them? It doesn't even seem like there is much uniqueness with the basslines anymore as well.
ok rant over, i wonder if anyone is with me, or they're gunna try and make the "most killer bassline" right after reading this. so somone on soulseek can say "you have any killer unreleased "your name here"" ?:o |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Oct 24, 2004 18:06
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I both must agree and disagree with you.
I totally agree that many producers is to obsessed with sound quality, and their creativity gets lost in the process of achiving their sound.
On the other hand I heard many tracks that is great tracks, but because of lack in punch in bass and kick, they can't be played at a party.
The punch in the low frequencys is the most important factor separating a track from sounding professional or not.
What really distubs me is the lack of creativity many producers have when it comes to basslines.
We had a lot of straight 8ths, ompa ompa music for a couple of years in the progressive phase, and now it's straight 16ths, daka daka daka basses that is in fashion.
Neither turn me on really, and it doesn't matter how good sound they have, still it sounds boring.
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Woggle
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Posted : Oct 24, 2004 18:10
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but these tracks 7 years ago weren't as "pro" sounding but imho that was the best times for this type of music....
I just get upset when i go to a party and all i hear is a lame bassline and a kick, it's like mindless music... music for retards going "yayyyyyy" to stupid beats, almost like techno...no soul...mindlessness...sorry!:-D
I feel some of the greatest stuff coming out today such as some of the suomi has some of the shittiest sound quality.
sometimes i'd rather hear the synths on top more than the bassline ,cuz the bassline bassline is too prevelent in the mix, takes up too much space...
i have been realizing something lately though, i've switched from making music on all hardware, to using a bit of software. And i notice while on the hardware to make things fit, i didn't need to use 1000 proccessing tools, but now with the VSTs and what not, i find i need to use them to make everything sound coherent, and not like shit. I'm not sure why this is this way... |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Oct 24, 2004 18:34
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I agree...I do enjoy much of the soumi stuff as well, because I do think contents comes before production.
Many ppl have problem to achive a decent enough bass to make their music playable, so it's really important to reach a certain standard of production with kick and bass....and many make the bass and kick bad by EQ'ing and compressing to much and incorrectly, just to try to achive a super sound.
But also 7yrs ago...the music with too bad kick and bass was unplayable...but most stuff was definatly good enough to be played still by my standarts anyway, even if it don't sound super tight today.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
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Woggle
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Posted : Oct 24, 2004 18:41
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I agree with what seems to be a required "tightness" of today's music. I think this can create an overly formulatic method of creating music. to have a dj play your stuff u need a certain sound, and to get that certain sound u have to do a certain method of creating the music... really killing off a lot of experimentation. I don't think you can really experiment fully while trying to get that exact sound everyone wants to hear to be more popular and in a sense a lot of these production tricks are to be commercially viable.
and it sucsk that a lot of music has gotten down to be as commercially viable instead of making the music for yourself, and hoping others enjoy...
but may be that's a wrong tangent to go off. I do definately feel that it definately leads to more formulatic music when things have to be in a desired frequency spectrum. |
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Input
IsraTrance Junior Member
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456
Posted : Oct 24, 2004 19:02
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Hey woggle,
I can understand your perspective and i'm agree with some of it but i just wanna add that psytrance music is very very technically nowadays and less musical- whether we like it or not, this is the majority, also i guess there's a lack of good acid in the world so this are the consequences 
BUT, still there's many great artists that invest in the content and not only in the frame so i'm optimistic,
and peoples put too much effort on the bassline because it's a very important part of today's trance music- apart from this the same effort should be invested on the content of course-
let's hope for good,
peace,
Space is the place
http://www.megabit.co.il |
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Triptocoma
Inactive User
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296
Posted : Oct 24, 2004 19:19
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Interesting topic....
iv been having similar thoughts my self....
Vb1 & Esm must be the most used bass tools in psytrance nowdays... what do you think?
i think people dedicate to little time into getting eccentric basses.... and 16th baselines is something that should be used sparsely...
i like the way logic bomb use their basses... these guys works with tension&release... listen to Mental Poison... its a fine example of what i mean...
nowdays there too much release... the story is lost behind the bass, at least sometimes....
laters
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Woggle
Started Topics :
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88
Posted : Oct 24, 2004 19:20
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this philosophy i find is destroying psy tho "psytrance music is very very technically nowadays and less musical- whether we like it or not, this is the majority"
who cares if the majority likes it? if u want commercial success then if the majority likes it, it would matter. but if you're working underground, fuck the majority:-) do your own thing, thats what unformulatic creative music is all about...unless u just want to be another mp3 somone listens to for 2 days until they dload the next "unrelease killer!" lol:) made with some new VST that has a better eQ...heh...
remember, u can make a difference, i make music because a lot shit it hear that's out i don't like. I don't make it to make sound like other people. Why would i do that? there's already those people i can listen to. Waste of time!:)
well this is what i feel about the effort, i think because people are using shittier synths(soft synths vs analog synths) for basslines it is much harder to make nad requires much more effort, too much effort is creating a restricted pathway to the access of the bassline. And now the instruments are dictating how the artists work because they need to proccess sounds a certain way. Creating a very unoriginal way of making music.
perhaps i think about these things too much and shouldget a lobotomy and join the skazi and gms loving masses ;p |
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Input
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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456
Posted : Oct 24, 2004 20:49
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Woggle,
which kind of peoples are your targeting??
do you want people to be different? me too so what,
face the life- peoples prefer junk man- shit is selling this is what people are buying whetear you and i will like it or not-
so i don't care for the majority as well but i'm also not feeling as a part of the majority anyway man the world is differents and things going commercial and i don't think that vst's or hardware will solve this-
when you're so involved with the world tunes it's hard to invent your own-
to be continue, peace
Space is the place
http://www.megabit.co.il |
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Triptocoma
Inactive User
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Posted : Oct 24, 2004 21:26
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Woggle - i like your philosophy...you have some valid points...
i think almost the same as you when it comes to mainstream music, im doing music for my self and for the fun of it(as i think most of us do)...im in no hurry and im not only doing psytrance... im interested in music.. and music is a broad thing
i agree that there arent many good vsti synths for baselines...not many for my purpose at least...
but with some mind power anything is possible...either be it soft(not only vsti) or hard or with a mic..
so im not dismissing softies for baselines...some people have done wonders with some of them... and to be honest i dont think that there need to be that much processing of some of them.... that is sometimes the thing that ruins it all...
layer some synths and you will have a fuller sound....instead of compressing the shit out of them..(layering is a broad science)
lets not be too critical on the softies... its all about what you do to them that matters... and you dont need to process them a 1000 times to get a good sound  you just need some tricks and knowledge and always search for more... so you wont be trapped in a formula.... explore is what its all about for me.. im a explorer... and it showes in my cooking amongst other things.. i love to explore and try new things... but you cant always be successful when you explore, you sometimes need knowledge to take use of your explorations...
laters
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Triptocoma
Inactive User
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Posted : Oct 24, 2004 22:05
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"face the life- peoples prefer junk man- shit is selling this is what people are buying whetear you and i will like it or not-"
but lets not justify it! by saying like that
the people that just listens to the music dont know what they miss when they fall for a trend...
if some artists are too driven by the people to involve their true visions into their work it´s their problem...
if some artists see a trend that works and they follow it they are not being true to them selfs...
but they think they are being true to the people...
its kind of a paradox...
but i have seen it with my own eyes how people change their visions just to blend in with the rest..
its the way of the human... we are affraid to be pushed out by the "tribe" or something like that, hehe
im only happy that we have a underground scen...
it keeps it free from prejudice... and people can experiment without feeling that they have an obligation to a certain compartment..
the only obligation they have is to be true to them selfs.... but sometimes that thing gets blurry when you feel obligations to a certain "scen"
thats some of my thoughts...
laters... and by all means lets create a discussion here |
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Top-down
Inactive User
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7
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119
Posted : Oct 24, 2004 23:23
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Very interesting topic, indeed ...
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Top-down
Inactive User
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Posted : Oct 24, 2004 23:51
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1) Why bass ?
Bass is the most impressive part in audio and I meen that first impression. In nature the bassy sound always comes from something big, heavy, strong and dangerous - impressive it is !
When the most important ame of the producer is to impress - he obviously will make the emphasis on bass.
2)Where is the music ?
There is nothing wrong in techno-drived music thinking and we know enough examples for great "not musical" music. An intellegent listener can enjoy creative soundscape as well as an interesting mellodic progression.
Sure in that not existing perfect world good music would be a fussion of both and musicians are not drived by their ego (money, sex, recognition ...), but we are only human and this world is far from perfection.
3)Trance&Bass ?
Now those are couple of thoughts and as I see this topic - more will come ...
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Woggle
Started Topics :
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Posted : Oct 25, 2004 02:46
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"Bass is the most impressive part in audio and I meen that first impression. In nature the bassy sound always comes from something big, heavy, strong and dangerous - impressive it is !
When the most important ame of the producer is to impress - he obviously will make the emphasis on bass.
"
do you drive a lowrider and blast miami bass tracks?! lol:)
come on now!:) if that were true just what i said would be true, miami bass would be the only good thing.
I am more into good tracks not about bass...
remember each pa system will treat your bass different. you can't really make a proper bass that'l react on all systems identical. you make them on studio monitors, most monitors without subs don't even bass properly.
mind you many PA systems don't even go under a certain frequency, where most bass resides...
I don't think the vibe is only contained within the bass is what i'm basically saying. I don't think one should simply deny themselves the fact that there are more lemenets ot the vibe of am usic;| |
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Top-down
Inactive User
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Posted : Oct 25, 2004 09:53
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Quote:
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On 2004-10-25 02:46, Woggle wrote:
I don't think the vibe is only contained within the bass is what i'm basically saying. |
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Me neither.
I just wanted to understand the reason for this "bass trend" going around.
By the way, bass is bass - don't get into PA systems details - here is where the trend gets you.
There is a belief about trance music not being normal music, but PA systems dancing tool, which IMO took the genre into places where eq's and comp's count more then vibe, groove and context.
We have to remeber that the average listener has an average MQ, which is prety low. Those listeners are the majority (simple statistics). Same goes for producers - nobody will stop a guy with that same average MQ to get himself P4+SX3+1000Vst's+Monitors+Some time in IsratranceForum asking about "how to..." and finally produce the next killer-top notch-eq'ed-compressed trendy TRANCE tune.
The genre goes pop like many other before and after it. Nothing upseting about it, just "music for the masses".
PS wtf is "miami bass" after all ?
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