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too much compression?
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dj chichke
Chichke
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
705
Posted : Jan 25, 2010 19:06:43
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today when i worked on a track of mine i noticed when i compared my track with my reference tracks that some of the tracks are so compressed than it fills to me that the dynamic if fucked. i totaly could notice it because i still don't have any compressor on my track (i didn't start the final mix) so the difference is so big. but you know what after i've read here some people say that today everybody are too much compress everything, i think maybe i realy don't need to compress much, because i noticed that some of the "professional" trakcs are jsut compessed too much.
another thing i suddenly noticed is that some of the "professional" tracks seems to me little bit distorted. especially domestic tracks as people already said before, but i couldn't hear it then. but not just him. maybe that's what happens when every artisrt thinks he can do mastering to himself.
i fill like enlightment that i can acttualy hear it suudenly. i would like to know what do you think about it? do you hear also the distoration i'm talking about? |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Jan 25, 2010 19:12
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On some tunes yes. It all depends who is doing the mastering and how much RMS you're aiming for. I am happier with my tunes not sounding the loudest, yet the sounds have some space to breathe. Everyone has been going bonkers for RMS instantly thinking louder=better, but its not the case.
Its not just dance music this craze is riding though, you should check the metal scene.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jan 25, 2010 19:22
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we are so used to it we dont notice it much sometimes ...but after a cure of oldschoold trance i really notice how tracks sound flat ,overcompression make tracks lifless and boring imo .
the funny thing we are so used to it that it s what we like in a way..for many listeing to some old trance they will say blah the production sux big time...but listen some oldshcool for one week you ll have a hard time coming back to the squashed clean steril sound of some today artists ,getting a crystal clear sound is what we say are good procution today but what is really the point ? sure it s crystal clear it have no life and no vibes, robot music |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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875
Posted : Jan 25, 2010 23:55
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First of all, I have no idea about professional mastering, but when I'm preparing a track to play it for a friend I use high pass, low pass, the smallest amount of multi band comp on the low end and a very slight overall compressor.
But my only aim is to get what I have sounding as loud as I can but with no majorly noticeable changes in the overall feel and balance of the track.
As I said, I'm no professional, but if I did pay for tracks to be mastered and they had fucked up the mix I spent days getting just right, I'd be very upset.
I still find it strange when I look at a waveform of a mastered track and it looks like a straight rectangle... it's wrong! |
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Inner Demon
Started Topics :
6
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321
Posted : Jan 26, 2010 00:33
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Quote:
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On 2010-01-25 23:55, soulfood wrote:
I still find it strange when I look at a waveform of a mastered track and it looks like a straight rectangle... it's wrong!
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+1 |
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Locrian
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
24
Posted : Jan 26, 2010 01:19
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Compression is generally a bad idea. Especially in electronic music where you already have so much control over every little detail.
Sometimes it's necessary as a last soultion when something just can't be solved in a better way, like overly dynamic vocals(whisper to screaming or the like) that you don't have the oppurtunity to re-record.
Compressing entire tracks however is never a good idea. You kill the dynamics and tranisents, adds distortion and makes a unclear mess of your track. (If you want it louder ther is always the volume pot  )
So you are absolutely on the right track. And you are not alone in hearing the distortion.  |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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875
Posted : Jan 26, 2010 01:51
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A bit of compression for mastering is no bad thing at all and a good mastering engineer will use it to enhance what the average producer's ear wasn't keen enough to pick up on, so I wouldn't say it's a bad idea in the slightest... it's just too easy to overdo it.
Plus there's a war on ya know! |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 26, 2010 02:09
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This is where people disagree, some say compress everything even if so slightly its almost not noticeable,
I think before we talk production maybe its a good idea to dig deeper how speakers work and different types of them!
But generally making Square´s is not so nice for the ear. Also a too muddy frequency clashing lowend is not so nice either... or too ringing percussion...
Lots of new production tricks and "skills" are just a smash to the ears and i rather listen to some oldschool ear friendly music.. leave some dynamics!
But its so hard to go backwards even if you know its better when others going forward...
Thanks again for this reminder! its a problematic thing!
I always like the more dynamic mix, but thats not how we get it these days....
Ill see what i can do for my own work...
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Locrian
Started Topics :
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Posts :
24
Posted : Jan 26, 2010 02:15
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Quote:
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On 2010-01-26 01:51, soulfood wrote:
A bit of compression for mastering is no bad thing at all and a good mastering engineer will use it to enhance what the average producer's ear wasn't keen enough to pick up on, so I wouldn't say it's a bad idea in the slightest... it's just too easy to overdo it.
Plus there's a war on ya know!
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Why isn't it a bad idea? If you should compress at all you should compress individual tracks where its needed. Why put it on everything if only the vocals and snare are a bit out of control?
In what way does a compressor enhance everything. As I pointed out it lessens the dynamics, reduces the transients and generally changes the character of the sound. I see that as degrading the sound, not enhancing.
Yeah, there is a war going on. And bad(but loud) sound is winning. 
But sure. If people want it loud and flat, then let them have it loud and flat. I prefer my music clear, punchy, and dynamic with full bandwidth and low distortion.
http://soundcloud.com/locrian/tracks |
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Psydust
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
91
Posted : Jan 26, 2010 02:21
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i have been using Tracks3 for a little while and noticed that Wavelab 6 loudness maximizer works better for me at least. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jan 26, 2010 02:46
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Locrian - sweet!
Nice thread
Psydust - yeah i guess comparing is the only right way to find what works best
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Locrian
Started Topics :
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24
Posted : Jan 26, 2010 03:22
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Quote:
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On 2010-01-26 02:46, Freeflow wrote:
Locrian - sweet!
Nice thread
Psydust - yeah i guess comparing is the only right way to find what works best
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Yeah. In the end, one must use one's own judgement. And to improve one's judgement one should learn as much as possible about the subject.
Physics(wave theory and electricity), Acoustics(the science of sound), Aurology(the science of the ear and hearing), Psychoacoustics(the science of how we interpret what we hear) and so on. All these helps a lot as it teaches one how things actually work.
The sad part is that sound engineers and producers generally don't know about this stuff, or they just know parts of it and/or they have missunderstood it. So usually one has to learn this from the people who know: scientist and (good)teachers within the areas.
In the end however, one will come a long way with a good ear. Being able to hear and analyze what one hears and from that draw correct conclusions is what differenciates a great producer from a bad to average one.
http://soundcloud.com/locrian/tracks |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Jan 26, 2010 19:28
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jan 26, 2010 21:27
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i have limited compressor knowledge, thats why i dont use them too much, only when i really think its needed! for sorting out too high peaks mostly but also sometimes to tight up a bass or percussion!
Still the mix is the most important.
its like this, sometimes if you build a percussion loop you mix something too high and it peaks too much and sound unbalanced, so you lower the volume and it sounds too little, and you cant find a good mix for example the snare,
This case i would think about pitch the snare so it dont have to fight for same space as something else, or i will distort it so it takes more room with force.
secondly i could try and compress it, maybe make it shorter in release and more snappier.
or i could try all 3 of them...
i think if you have a limited knowledge of compressors like i have you should see them as a simple peak adjuster, evening them out. Of course a compressor can adjust lenght and attack, the pump effect is well known.. i think learning the compressor is a good thing cause you can use it too many things and advantages...
But this thread seems to be more about this peak adjustments, that its too much evening out, too flat.. just for the sake of being able to raise the volume more... well thats wrong and maybe even stupid! but its loud... and loud is boring for too long..
peace
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
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8087
Posted : Jan 27, 2010 15:26
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one problem is the mixs that are too flat and can t breath cause of compression but our ears are used to it ,i guess lot of us don t listen music with lot of dynamic so we don t realise how it suck the life of the tracks .
that overcompressed sound can sound better on small speaker but on monitors it s really boring |
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