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Too chaotic darkpsy is no good!
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
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5292
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 10:46
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 10:55
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Sigh, I tried multiple times to get an actual discussion going about the physicality of trance states, but no one bit.
Yes, different people like different things. I understand this, and there's no point arguing it. Some people like ICP - I do not understand this. It would be a complete waste of my time to try to 'debate' or 'argue' with someone about why they like the music they like. I also do not think that the music that I enjoy is 'superior' in an artistic way to any other form of music...including ICP.
However - *when the discussion is restricted specifically to inducing a trance state in a human being* I think it might be meaningful and relevant.
It could be that trance states are taste too - I'm open to that possibility. However, I don't think that's true - Ive been trying to find stuff about it, but I have been unsuccessful sofar.
My 'evidence' is largely personal/subjective. I can really enjoy the fuck out of ambient music when I'm altered - but it doesn't put me in a trance state. I can enjoy the fuck out of some polka, or darkpsy, or hip hop - but it won't trance me out.
Certain tempo ranges of 4/4 music do. Why?
  If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
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5292
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 11:03
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Mate take enough psychedelics and anything will put you in a state of trance, the experience is so strong and personal that you will connect whatever kind of music you were listening to it and argue about it till the end of days.
I've listened to Miles Davis' Kind Of Blue album on el cid and it blew me away. I am not going to start a thread about John Coltrain's licks being more psychedelic than dark psy on isra tho. Its pointless.
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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2822
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 11:07
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You are saying that getting high on psychedelics and enjoying stuff = a state of trance.
I find that they are two VERY different things.
And again, I am *NOT* saying what is or is not more psychedelic - as that is innately subjective.
Am I just fucking crazy? No one understands the difference? If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 11:11
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If that's the case then I guess if I want to trance people out I'll just find a way to inject them with a fuckload of drugs and then play whatever I want, because all that matters is the drugs.
/sarcasm
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Nndmt
Started Topics :
0
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9
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 11:12
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Quote:
| In fact, that may be the single dumbest thing I've ever heard anyone say on the topic of psychedelics and dance music. How can you be on psychedelics with music and NOT dance?!?!!? |
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You were the one who made the distinction between four dimensional surfing and dancing in the first place bro, not me.
And I stand by my view on dimensions, it's very logical actually. The latest discoveries in quantum theory - an objective, empirically verified science, and string theory, is that material reality is made out of energy vibrating in 10 dimensions of space. This includes ALL matter, from quarks to atoms to complex molecules to the human body, we are all made out of superstrings vibrating in 10 dimensions of space.
The reason we experience the world as three dimensional, rather than 10 dimensional, is because the brain evolved to narrow quantum consciousness down to the 3D here and now because that was evolutionary beneficial.
It evolved to use serotonin to communicate information between synapses. THIS NOT IS NOT A HIPPY DIPPY THEORY, this is scientific fact. Between the neurons in our cerebral and visual cortex, there are gaps. In order to perceive the external world, under normal conditions, serotonin molecules jump across these gaps as a form of brain language to communicate external reality.
How do I know that it is serotonin which does this? Because when you introduce neurotransmitters nearly identical to 5HT, to the 5HT system, the perceived world instantly transforms. That isolates the 5HT system to being the system which handles perception of reality.
Then, a theory must be created to explain why
the world transforms around us when we introduce exotic neurotransmitters to the 5HT system. My theory is based on the recent findings that our sense of smell is the ability to detect the frequencies of molecules coming into our smell receptors. It has been discovered that we don't smell things because different shapes fit into different slots - because completely different shapes produce similar smells, while similar shapes produce different smells -- its because of the quantum spin frequency of the molecules..
I carry that mechanism to perception in general. We perceive the world the way we do because serotonin resonates with this frequency of quantum reality. Psychedelic neurotransmitters which are structurally identical to serotonin, may have a higher quantum frequency which resonates with a higher dimension which we all exist on all the time. There IS an objective psychedelic reality, it is not just a fantasy or illusion created in your own skull, it is part of the same 10 dimensional matrix that we ordinarily experience, but that it is so unimaginably huge and infinite that no two people have the exact same experiences. Yet, groups on ayahuasca CAN perceive the same visions at the same time, proving that there is an objective psychedelic reality.
It's not hippy dippy to refer to the psychedelic experience as being four dimensional. Both LSD and psilocybin alter our perception of time, and time IS the fourth dimension. On enough lsd you can *see* forward and backwards into time. On a high dose of psilocybin, you can *see* the parallel realities that are right around the corner in the fifth dimension. Maybe you did not interpret it that way, because you don't understand what the characteristics of specific dimensions are. Read up.
DMT certainly takes you much farther than the fourth dimension.. But if you are looking for a "trance", consult a hypnosis specialist. |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 11:21
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On 2011-08-15 11:11, willsanquil wrote:
If that's the case then I guess if I want to trance people out I'll just find a way to inject them with a fuckload of drugs and then play whatever I want, because all that matters is the drugs.
/sarcasm
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Sarcasm aside it would work  gettting into a state of trance because you've pumped a shit loads of psychedelics into your body is completely different to getting a rush from music completely sober, yes. But you're stressing too much about what gets other people into a state of trance.
You know you're right about the music you like because it resonates in your body's and mind's atoms, but its impossible to put that across to other people that haven't felt that with the music you like, and vice versa.
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Nndmt
Started Topics :
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9
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 11:27
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I find it funny that in one post willsanquil talks about the "the physicality of trance states", "brain waves and heart rate", and then in another post ridicules me for bringing science or "pseudoscience" into a discussion on psychedelics simply because I used the word vibration. |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 11:31
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Your statements are rife with pseudoscience. There are some things in there that are true, but you do the same thing you did previously - freely mix science with pseudoscience. You are vastly oversimplifying the process of how the brain interprets the world and how its communication systems work.
I would go through and debunk various aspects of this, but it's honestly not worth my time - there is too much.
Actually, I'm starting to think you're the worlds best troll. You got me good.
EDIT: The difference between my statements of brain waves and yours is that every single time I make mention of it, I say that I haven't found proof yet and I'm still looking and that I'm open to being wrong. I am seeking answers with an open mind, not saying here is what is going on here *I KNOW* If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 11:33
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On 2011-08-15 11:27, Nndmt wrote:
I find it funny that in one post willsanquil talks about the about "the physicality of trance states", "brain waves and heart rate", and then in another post ridicules me for bringing science or "pseudoscience" into a discussion on psychedelics simply because I used the word vibration.
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The science part of things is just fine, anything can be explained using science to the point where people start saying "my theory is..." then we go into completely subjective territory that will have one arguing for ever without reaching an objective conclusion.
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 11:36
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On 2011-08-15 11:21, disco hooligans wrote:
Sarcasm aside it would work gettting into a state of trance because you've pumped a shit loads of psychedelics into your body is completely different to getting a rush from music completely sober, yes. But you're stressing too much about what gets other people into a state of trance.
You know you're right about the music you like because it resonates in your body's and mind's atoms, but its impossible to put that across to other people that haven't felt that with the music you like, and vice versa.
Peace out.
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I am not looking for verification that the music I like is the best music out there. I am simply looking for more information on what puts human beings into a trance state, and why.
I am not 'stressing' - I am simply intrigued. The trance-dance experience is what got me interested in music production and what keeps me coming back year after year to the dancefloor and so anything I can learn in regards to that experience would be great. I would have thought that other people would have the same interests, this being a 'trance' forum and all.
It seems like everyone is going really out of their way to miss my point. Or I'm putting it across really horribly.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 11:37
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And by teh way DMT is brilliant but fuck me if you can interpret the experience afterwards and remember every second of the 15minutes of that outter space ride.
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Nndmt
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
9
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 11:38
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willsanquil, the reason you are not specifically debunking anything is because you can't find anything to debunk, it stands up to both quantum mechanics and experience. You only instinctively disagree with it because it goes against your previous notions.
Yes, the brain is involved with various neurotransmitters, not just serotonin. But all the other non-tryptamine neurotransmitters deal with other aspects of cognition, not perception.
Boom |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 11:40
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On 2011-08-15 11:37, disco hooligans wrote:
And by teh way DMT is brilliant but fuck me if you can interpret the experience afterwards and remember every second of the 15minutes of that outter space ride.
Peace out.
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With time and experience you can hold on to more of it. Keep at it
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 11:40
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Quote:
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On 2011-08-15 11:36, willsanquil wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-08-15 11:21, disco hooligans wrote:
Sarcasm aside it would work gettting into a state of trance because you've pumped a shit loads of psychedelics into your body is completely different to getting a rush from music completely sober, yes. But you're stressing too much about what gets other people into a state of trance.
You know you're right about the music you like because it resonates in your body's and mind's atoms, but its impossible to put that across to other people that haven't felt that with the music you like, and vice versa.
Peace out.
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I am not looking for verification that the music I like is the best music out there. I am simply looking for more information on what puts human beings into a trance state, and why.
I am not 'stressing' - I am simply intrigued.
It seems like everyone is going really out of their way to miss my point. Or I'm putting it across really horribly.
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Ok, I'll rephrase. If I met you on some dancefloor, away from all this isra jibberish and asked you, "will mate what puts you in a state of trance and why?" I am positive that you would give me an answer, as you already know what puts you in a state of trance, music wise especially...would you not?
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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