Perma Fry
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Posted : Aug 14, 2011 23:15
This topic is getting boring
willsanquil
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Posted : Aug 14, 2011 23:19
I love dancing. I especially love dancing with happy, smiling people for hours on end. Since I have been DJing and producing I have been watching the dancefloor more carefully as I want to make people dance and smile and have fun.
I am perfectly willing to admit my selection bias in these matters, and I am sure that there are parties where the crowd is totally into the dark/fast stuff and dances their collective faces off. Worldbridge is apparently an example of this. If you can get people to smile and dance and have fun, then play w/e the fuck you want.
However, in my personal experience when dark/fast stuff gets played the dancefloor inevitably suffers. So many times I have seen a dancefloor bouncing around happily for hours and then all of a sudden...there's no one there. Or the dancing shifts from bouncing and lots of movement to shuffling/stuttering around as the dancers try to keep up.
It feels like a lot of the time the dance part of the music is secondary to...whatever the fuck it is the music is trying to do. I have never seen progressive or full-on kill a dance floor like I have seen with fast psy, especially the psycore sound.
I've never had people come up to me at a party and say 'hey, this music is really aggressive and I feel like its beating me...how can anyone dance to this?' and have them be referring to full-on or progressive. Of course, it's not like full-on or progressive is the end-all-be-all of dance music - I've left a floor before because it got too cheesy for my tastes.
I feel like a lot of the time the DJ/producer's ego of 'I want to blow this shit up!' negatively effects the party and the floor. I've seen it so many times and it makes me angry - IMO your job as a DJ or producer is to keep people dancing with smiles on their faces. If I go to a party wanting to play some progressive and I get stuck in the middle of the night and it's not appropriate...I adapt. If I notice that my music selection is losing people, I adapt.
I don't think I've EVER seen a dark trance DJ notice that he killed the floor and change it up - just soldiers on through the noise because that's what he wants to hear and fuck everyone else.
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Posted : Aug 14, 2011 23:34
Quote:
I feel like a lot of the time the DJ/producer's ego of 'I want to blow this shit up!' negatively effects the party and the floor. I've seen it so many times and it makes me angry - IMO your job as a DJ or producer is to keep people dancing with smiles on their faces. If I go to a party wanting to play some progressive and I get stuck in the middle of the night and it's not appropriate...I adapt. If I notice that my music selection is losing people, I adapt.
I don't think I've EVER seen a dark trance DJ notice that he killed the floor and change it up - just soldiers on through the noise because that's what he wants to hear and fuck everyone else.
Yeah man!!! tottally agree, i´ve seen it too many times, most with fast dark dj´s. Thats the reason of my signature, too many egos in the desks...
Dancers make the party, not Dj´s
www.soundcloud.com/ying-yang-monks
willsanquil
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 00:42
dreadieg
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 01:23
i play agressive stuff, and the floor always freaks out in response. it's all in proper line up planning, build up to the hard and heavy stuff, gets everyone in the same vibe.
and MCoon: i don't take drugs either, and i can always outlast the dancers on the floor. i'm weird, i guess.
Doof Local
kazuku
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 02:11
There is alot of copy and paste junk in this genre, and alot of it can end up sounding very unoriginal and random. As with any genre, there are also gems to be found, if you are open to this kind of style. Its trance induction comes by dissociation rather than steadiness. At home this sound also gets too much for me some times, but I sometimes dig it on the floor, when you have a good sound system and can feel the full power. If you dont like it dont listen
willsanquil
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 02:26
Quote:
On 2011-08-15 01:23, dreadieg wrote:
i play agressive stuff, and the floor always freaks out in response. it's all in proper line up planning, build up to the hard and heavy stuff, gets everyone in the same vibe.
I agree that with proper lineup planning and a build up to heavy and fast it can be done well. My ranting aside I do enjoy some harder/faster stuff *at the appropriate time* and for an appropriate length of time. when I started going to festivals in 2003 I could expect to dance throughout the entire night and into the next day on a saturday night of a multi day festival, there was a natural flow and build that kept the dancefloor populated and moving.
Seen so many parties where the floor is bumpin through most of the night, then darkpsy comes in and bam - floor dead.
Almost every festival I go to I have to go to sleep in the middle of the night because its hard/fast for almost the entire night. I can handle a couple of hours of madness. I cannot handle 8+ hours of darkpsy in a row. Fuck that - it's boring.
Everyone wants to play the peak set that blows everyone's face off and the dancefloor suffers. Ego. If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records
MR VOMERS
Datavore
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 04:29
WARNING: The Reality Master General has determined that Mr. Vomit may significantly alter your reality. Usage of the knowledge provided by Mr. Vomit may be perceived as dangerous and subversive by those in authority.
syntesis
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 04:44
Quote:
On 2011-08-15 00:42, willsanquil wrote:
Nice tracks mate. Got yourself a new SC follower!
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 05:17
:D
V3NOM
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 05:32
Proper music build up is what's important, and IMHO mostly what seems to be missing at a lot of big festivals.
The glory days of EDM for me actually weren't even the old psy/goa but the real early(ish) raves where every style of EDM was played over the time it ran. Back the. The peak here in Melbourne was either fast minimal techno, glitch IDM or mostly Dutch hardcore/gabber.
Never heard anyone complaining of the music back then. You just went for the ride & swallowed what was dished up. Leave your preferences & judgements at home, when a crowd gets over 100 you will never please everyone.
I hate you, you hate me, we are all so hap hap happy!
Nndmt
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 09:10
Quote:
willsanquilwrote: It feels like a lot of the time the dance part of the music is secondary to...whatever the fuck it is the music is trying to do.
of course! Dark psy was never about dancing or "trancing". With dark psy its not called dancing bro, its something else -- maybe four dimensional surfing? hehe
. Its not just to induce a hypnotic "trance", but to induce psychedelic states, to transfer the artist's definition of a deeep psychedelic trip into the minds of its listeners, to transform crazy sounds into visuals. The high bpm accelerates the information in a shorter period of time..
divorced from psychedelics I don't see how anyone can understand this music if they have not experienced it on lsd/mushrooms/dmt before. Dancing is totally secondary to the primary purpose of "dark" (which I only see as a term for real psy music) which is tripping..
A very good example of fast, dark, shamanic, pushing the boundaries of psychedelic inducing music, maybe even chaotic (but in a good way) is dark prisma records and a lot from latin america really
An example of a dark psy festival where everyone is happy and dancing, not dead at all,, psycrowdelica of course
Zigurat on Glosolalia - Terra Incognita
I think, the difference between traditional trance parties where people actually dance, and dark psy parties, is that in the former most people are on MDMA and in the latter they are on LSD - thus less movement, more swaying, and when you turn on dark psy at a non dark psy party, people end up leaving the dance floor.. Only the ones that were on lsd or psychedelics stay and sway.
that's my take on it.
willsanquil
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 09:54
You just explained to me the very reason why I don't like this type of music. It's not for dancing, it's for 'four dimensional surfing' - and then you directly associate it with drugs and say that without drugs you don't get the full experience or 'understand' it. That seems like another way of saying 'assault you with as much noise and flying zipper FX as possible while you're on a lot of drugs'
I think that's bullshit. I think psychedelics are an important part of psychedelic trance states, but you should never 'have' to take a drug to enjoy any form of music - and if you do, I would say that's an indication as to the quality of the music...and not in a good way.
I don't think that video is a good example of an impressive dance floor. Those people are barely moving. Respect to Megalopsy's engineering - and I liked Abstract Machine (because it wasn't obsessed with speed and was actually pretty groovy) but...I wouldn't want to hear that on the dance floor.
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 10:02
no bro, I said that if you had not experienced the music on psychedelics "before", not that you need to be on them to enjoy them. Before I heard dark psy on acid I didn't really get it, but now that the connection has been established I can enjoy it with or without drugs. Also, before I heard this music on heavier psychedelics like psilocybin or DMT, I also didn't fully get it even after hearing it on lsd (especially quantum mechanica), and still don't fully get it. It's a mystery why the dmt entities love it so much. There is not even a comparison.
The name of the game is to experiment and push the boundaries of the mental states you can produce with music, experienced on different levels of drug induced consciousness. Even listening to this music sober, btw, is a drug induced consciousness, because when we are sober our brains are communicating with serotonin molecules. On psychedelic drugs, the brain communicates using higher energy molecules, and experience the world in a higher dimensional way. So it follows that when you listen to music on psychedelics you are experiencing it in a higher dimensional way, (the way it was designed to be experienced.)
And another thing, this music, psychedelic and trance music, would not even exist if it were not for "drugs." Dancing is just something humans do to repeating patterns, it is not a goal in itself.
Also, to the "barely moving" comment.. Terence Mckenna once said that people on psychedelics normally only run around the block or exercise when they are trying to sober up. The same goes for wildly dancing to rave music.
Peace and love brother
willsanquil
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 10:37
Peace and love I agree with. I also may have taken your 'need drugs to understand it' thing a bit far. That was probably out of line, sorry.
However - I have taken a lot of the various psychedelics you mentioned - and listened to darkpsy while on them. It didn't make me go to the fourth dimension, or have my molecules vibrate on higher hippy frequencies or anything.
Different people are effected by music in different ways - there is no objective psychedelic reality.
I really despise the psuedoscience that a large portion of the psytrance community seems to flock to. Our world and our brains and music is so unendingly complex and beautiful as is. You don't need to resort to bullshit super-hippy 'higher energy molecule, higher dimension blah blah blah' stuff.
It makes it even worse when you try to insert some random bit of brain lingo that you think you know in order to make it seem factual. "When we are sober our brains are communicating with serotonin molecules" - that made me facepalm, and anyone with any working knowledge of brain chemistry would chuckle at that for sure.
Unless I'm horribly mistaken, you don't know anything about brain chemistry or molecular vibration, but you sure as hell took a lot of shrooms or LSD or DMT one time and thought up some shit that sounds cool to you.
If I am horribly mistaken and you have some evidence for these theories, I'll gladly eat my words and sing your praises for teaching me something new. However, if you want to know what the brain does on psychedelics...look it up and study it. There is plenty of real scientific knowledge out there. Erowid is a great start. It's a fascinating topic.
It's all well and good to go out of your head and think about the universe and experience altered states - but it's another thing to jump off your rocker and start saying things that aren't based on anything but said altered state.
Sorry for the harshness.
Dancing is not a goal in itself? Dancing is DEFINITELY a goal in itself. Dancing is fucking awesome, and psychedelics make me want to dance for hours and hours and hours - Terrence Mckenna is fucking wrong on that one for sure.
In fact, that may be the single dumbest thing I've ever heard anyone say on the topic of psychedelics and dance music. How can you be on psychedelics with music and NOT dance?!?!!? If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records
:D 
