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Thoughts on not mixing while producing.
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Ricciardo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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10
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188
Posted : Jan 14, 2012 00:21
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On 2012-01-13 17:00, PoM wrote:
the problem one may have to keep everything not bounced to audio to work like this ... and thats one of the major reason that forced us to mix everyhting on the go, to bounce to audio some group of sound and mangle .
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if you had a computer like me, you wouldnt be any problem...
but thats why i own i7 2600(sandybridge) 16gb Ram
i never bounce, or even need to think about it... its streight production, small latence, no problems, just making music |
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H.E.L.L.O.
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
18
Posted : Jan 20, 2012 13:46
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So... When i start a new track i compose and mix it, playing with various effect on each track that needs it. I do not like to "wait" till i finish composition, i prefer to build a track "on a go". So let's say i do a skeleton which is the kick, bass, perc - all the way to the end (sometimes changing or adding some breaks later), and later i work on the first part of a track till the mainbreak. Compose it, mix it, build the synths & fx sounds on the way (i do not prefer to create sounds before). I try to mix everything to fit well with everything else, adding some comp, EQ, delays, reverbs and stuff when mixing it...
That's because i do not like raw sounds, i like to have "space" in the track, also i know what is where exactly so i know the available space for another instruments, sounds.
When the track is in advanced stage i'm doing all the levels fixes in the mix + EQ fixes... Thats all i think  |
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subsaharan
Started Topics :
8
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29
Posted : Jan 20, 2012 13:55
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i have recently changed up my work flow a little, in that i tend to feel more creative in the lounge for some reason (maybe its the drone of the fishing channel in the background, or the comfortable couch..) so I do some basic programing/arrangement using the HD25's then mixdown in the studio..find this to be a good system for me |
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skyhighatrist
skyhighatrist
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
101
Posted : Jan 21, 2012 12:16
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Do what works for you There are no rules really
For me, I mix a bit as I go because, as others have said, I feel I need to to get an idea on how the sounds work together / what space is left for the track. I find that I tend to mix the new parts in a fraction too loud. I think this is natural as I want to hear my new part clearly.
That said, when it's finished, I put all the faders to 0 and do a mixdown (at a different time and sometimes more than once) and mix until i'm happy with the overall sound.
I would love to be able to get it correct whilst I'm composing but for me, having a dedicated mixing session where i'm not worried about arrangement but just about getting the best out of each sound and the best mix of sounds works for me.
Also, doing this means that during composition and arrangement I can concentrate on getting things down quickly rather than getting stuck on detail that slows down the creative flow (and can always be done later).
 http://www.catawampus-records.co.uk/Catawampus_Records/Skyhighatrist.html |
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Alien Bug
IsraTrance Junior Member
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27
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682
Posted : Jan 21, 2012 13:41
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skyhighatrist
skyhighatrist
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
101
Posted : Jan 21, 2012 15:45
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Alien Bug
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
682
Posted : Jan 21, 2012 16:05
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makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
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3087
Posted : Jan 21, 2012 22:21
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On 2012-01-21 12:16, skyhighatrist wrote:
Do what works for you There are no rules really
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Yes, but one needs to try everything to understand what works and what doesnt.
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That said, when it's finished, I put all the faders to 0 and do a mixdown (at a different time and sometimes more than once) and mix until i'm happy with the overall sound.
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I never mixed my tracks that way, always have everything inside the project. Indeed, as it was said before, it may become really annoying when you have to make many little tweaks and the cpu is overloaded. I hate it. Next time I wanna try making a track without too much EQ and compressor work, bounce everuything and mix in the new project.
And by the way, don't forget that even in pop / rock music they eq and compress instruments and vocals a bit during recording, so little fixes here and there are inevitable even during composing and arranging.
www.overdreamstudio.com |
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Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
Started Topics :
191
Posts :
3097
Posted : Jan 21, 2012 22:51
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You mean hearing your music crap 3,000 times then in the end of the track mix it ? Sound strange . Why not work right (I mean right pro) , Sure there many way to work , Im coming from there , And yes i always had this thought this is what artists should do , I always thought the way is never important But the results , This is totaly wrong , And i learnd it when i meet makus overdream first time last year (This is somthing im owing him for sure) , I sent him 4 and a half min with 100 open compressors was taking 2 days in the skype , So makus said 'How can you work like that' ? Since then i work on each sound and sound one by one .
So .. Dont change ! Mix sounds in the end we both know this is not serious .
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
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1397
Posted : Jan 22, 2012 12:31
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I have done it many times... And its so not right man. That is basicaly my mistake.
I think best is to make the sound quality from the beginning that works the best for me right now.
I'm trying out now the method of making the most quality patch i can and then working with it to compose the music. I am so affraid to get stuck with another "i'll do it later" soundclip. And actualy i want to go through my tracks and erase all non-mixed material of just sounds that are not intelligent enough and have no shine, and i mean it mix wise.
I want to put more work in to synthesis and i realize more and more that eq can be a big part of it aswell or just any insert you can imagine yourself. This is the polish. It has to fit.
Ofcourse you can just throw in sounds and make alot of mastering work later and it can be great too. It can no matter what you say.
But really its not that big of a thing to just at least cut sounds abit for them to fit ,and to hear if they do fit.
Unless you aim to compose a symphony don't skip the sound. Because it is soundwork, you work in a daw you add dirty static sounds. Would be cool if you could write all the parts in sines and then to synthesise the sound but would be just crazy lol might be crazy enough to work 
http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
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Alien Bug
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
682
Posted : Jan 22, 2012 16:13
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wait a minute we dont talking about making a midi tracks with GM bank onboard (who remember that crappy sounds from old soundcards? )
i make my mix while producing. but if at end i hear that mix is wrong, then i shut off comps/eq at some or every channel and then i make my mix from scratch. sometimes i need it sometimes i dont.
Mix sounds in the end is normal practice for biggest names in production world so i dont think so that this is not serious, and if at last finished track sound good then why could it be wrong way?
everyone has their own path. if final mix is good then dont punish that people because their way is different
http://www.beatport.com/release/cross-the-atoms/1042450
http://soundcloud.com/alien-bug
http://www.facebook.com/ali3nBug |
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makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : Jan 22, 2012 17:33
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Quote:
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On 2012-01-22 12:31, daark wrote:
I have done it many times... And its so not right man. That is basicaly my mistake.
I think best is to make the sound quality from the beginning that works the best for me right now.
I'm trying out now the method of making the most quality patch i can and then working with it to compose the music. I am so affraid to get stuck with another "i'll do it later" soundclip. And actualy i want to go through my tracks and erase all non-mixed material of just sounds that are not intelligent enough and have no shine, and i mean it mix wise.
I want to put more work in to synthesis and i realize more and more that eq can be a big part of it aswell or just any insert you can imagine yourself. This is the polish. It has to fit.
Ofcourse you can just throw in sounds and make alot of mastering work later and it can be great too. It can no matter what you say.
But really its not that big of a thing to just at least cut sounds abit for them to fit ,and to hear if they do fit.
Unless you aim to compose a symphony don't skip the sound. Because it is soundwork, you work in a daw you add dirty static sounds. Would be cool if you could write all the parts in sines and then to synthesise the sound but would be just crazy lol might be crazy enough to work
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hey, no pressure, man. You are talking extremes. No sines. While making a tune I use lots of effect processors and synths + lots of audio editing work. That all creates a sound I want. I'm not talking about that as mixing.
I just did mixing while producing since I started making music in 1998. Sure at first I didn't know a thing, but as far as I got any new technical knowledge I tried to implement it at once in a track. Now I feel that I can do pretty nice mix without using compressors and eqs a lot. Maybe some hp here and there, but that's it. Concentrate on music first, make best of synth tweaking and arrangement. Just say if you don't have any eq or dynamic processors, but you still need to do a track. I think it might be a pretty nice challenge. I thought this is a nice idea and wanted to discuss who is going this way already.
www.overdreamstudio.com |
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Alien Bug
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
682
Posted : Jan 22, 2012 18:26
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Quote:
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On 2012-01-22 17:33, makus wrote:
Now I feel that I can do pretty nice mix without using compressors and eqs a lot. Maybe some hp here and there, but that's it. Concentrate on music first, make best of synth tweaking and arrangement.
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+1
This is the most important thing that I've learned (a few months ago) over 10 years of education.
Now i have a synth tracks where even no HP and they sound much better than where i drop 2 EQ, 3 comps and 10 other "sound improvers" Now I get pro/semi-pro sounding tracks and much less work with mix
http://www.beatport.com/release/cross-the-atoms/1042450
http://soundcloud.com/alien-bug
http://www.facebook.com/ali3nBug |
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Jan 22, 2012 21:22
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Quote:
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On 2012-01-22 17:33, makus wrote:
Now I feel that I can do pretty nice mix without using compressors and eqs a lot. Maybe some hp here and there, but that's it. Concentrate on music first, make best of synth tweaking and arrangement. |
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That's pretty much what i would call mixing.
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| Just say if you don't have any eq or dynamic processors, but you still need to do a track. I think it might be a pretty nice challenge. I thought this is a nice idea and wanted to discuss who is going this way already.
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Do you think it is possible to do that and then just master it straight away without mixing in the end? With just a mastering chain ?
I mean i think its pretty possible even if its against the rules and mastering tools are pretty great to repair almost everything eventualy. I mean i have stuff that sound almost listenable with just going crazy making the bass kick and making the kick a bass playing with antiphases of the low end and all that only by hearing and just go wild on everything destroying all the sound with phasers and choruses. Creating rhythms with gates and just go crazy. What do you say ?
Hmmmm... now i realize maybe psykovsky does that lol. Or just bringing distortion on the master chain and say it is the sound that is supposed to be coming out don't worry, like cpc ?
Ahhh short post becomes long ....
What do you say then ?
http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
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makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : Jan 22, 2012 22:24
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Quote:
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On 2012-01-22 21:22, daark wrote:
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On 2012-01-22 17:33, makus wrote:
Now I feel that I can do pretty nice mix without using compressors and eqs a lot. Maybe some hp here and there, but that's it. Concentrate on music first, make best of synth tweaking and arrangement. |
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That's pretty much what i would call mixing.
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Well, it is not. It is composition and arrangement
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On 2012-01-22 21:22, daark wrote:
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| Just say if you don't have any eq or dynamic processors, but you still need to do a track. I think it might be a pretty nice challenge. I thought this is a nice idea and wanted to discuss who is going this way already.
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Do you think it is possible to do that and then just master it straight away without mixing in the end? With just a mastering chain ? |
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Well, sure you can have pretty ok result, but I wouldn't do it.
First of all I don't see mastering as a process of fixing or enhancing anything. Badly produced track won't be good after mastering. it is gonna be badly produced mastered track If you have to fix something in the track having only final export I call it editing.
But still, after a nice composition and arrangement there might be lots of stuff to do with dynamics and equalization to make the track even better in terms of sonic richness, low end, loudness, translation, deepness, punch and so on. Why skip this step?
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| I mean i think its pretty possible even if its against the rules and mastering tools are pretty great to repair almost everything eventualy. I mean i have stuff that sound almost listenable with just going crazy making the bass kick and making the kick a bass playing with antiphases of the low end and all that only by hearing and just go wild on everything destroying all the sound with phasers and choruses. Creating rhythms with gates and just go crazy. What do you say ? |
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Indeed nowadays tools are getting more and more versatile and cool. Just take all these mid-side multiband eq, dynamics and enhancers. Or mid side dynamic eq. Fuck, that's huge. But still, having these stuff under your belt I wouldn't skip mixing step, especially if you need to fix anything and have a possibility to fix it on re-recording / arrangement / mixing stage.
When I get some mastering work, I meet lots of tracks that lack something or have too much of something. I try to connect with artist and try to talk to him and sometimes it works out and I get a new fixed export and the track sounds fine. But when there is no such possibility I have to fix too loud kick or too week bass on my own. I think you agree with me that just making the bass louder 2 db will sound much more natural than boosting with multiband dynamics a narrow range somewhere around 100 hz, with some bass enhancer on top. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it works not so well.
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Hmmmm... now i realize maybe psykovsky does that lol. Or just bringing distortion on the master chain and say it is the sound that is supposed to be coming out don't worry, like cpc ?
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I dunno these guys, I met CPC once and saw him working in Sony Acid. He said thats the best daw ever
www.overdreamstudio.com |
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