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Thoughts about responsibilty, psycedelic music and emotion
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subconsciousmind
SCM
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Posted : Aug 1, 2007 17:57
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Thats a new text I put on my website, in the section of the background of my work.
I thought I put it here, some may like to flame me for it 
Psychedelic music and emotion:
Some listeners and writers of psychedelic music say that the music is not psychedelic anymore when there is emotion included. Others find it not psychedelic anymore if there are certain emotions for example "happyness" involved, but still find it psychedelic when the emotions are more on the negative side or the emotions are more "mystical".
I find the later kind of unlogic and inconsequent.
My idea of "psychedelic" music is more general. Psychedelic music is music which gives the listener the impression of interaction with the music. Music with an own mind so to speak. For me psychedelic music brings the listener into a certain "trance" and therfore has the ability to lead the listener into himself or somewhere else, allowing amazing musical experiences, trips out and insides ones mind. This definition doesn't exclude any kind of emotion but demands something much more complex.
The majority of psychedelic music leaves out emotion. This is understandable since it offers many opportunities and due to leaving more doors open allows the listener more individual experiences. On the other hand including emotion into psychedelic music means to have more guidance and due to its increased concreteness offers stronger and deeper experiences as long the included emotions are genuine and deep enough. Therefore this demands a lot of frankness and responsibility in songwriting, since, putting the listener into a state of trance, it is possible to guide the listener into emotional corners so deep in himself, that it can even be difficult to get out alone. Overall the emotions unconditionally have to be genuine and deep-routed, cause in a state of trust and trance everything else would be very confusing. Hence, in my eyes, the writer of emotional, psychedelic music has to be very careful, has to offer complete trips, stories and has to bring the listener back to where he was. Just as a hypnotist has to wake you up after hypnosis.
In my experience it seems as if many writers of psychedelic trance are not aware of the power of emotion in combination with psychedelic song structures and work relatively irresponsible with emotions. Unsolved, unended stories or emotions, ungenuine emotions, surfacial emotions can be a problem since they (in case the listener was fully trusting the artist) can leave the listener in a, say, "displeasing" state. In combination with certain drugs this can even lead to bad trips. But mostly this leads to people just stopping to trust any emotion in psychedelic music, since they made unpleasant experiences.
This of course all applies to "normal" music as well, but the effect is much bigger in psychedelic music.
I do my best to write emotional, psychedelic songs, which take the listener to a beautiful or terrifiying trip into oneself but still bring everyone safe back home. Still: my experience is, that many listener either don't trust my songs in the first place or are just not willing to take what they show or even teach them.
In my eyes this is partly caused by too many artists irresponsibly creating "malfunctioning" emotional, psychedelic music and partly because people want to avoid the confronatation which emotional, psychedelic music offers. Psychedelic music can only "function" and "malfunction" when someone listens to it with all senses open. To protect from that, listeners start to close their senses by themselve or with senseclosing drugs.
I hope that artists making psychedelic music become more aware of the responsibility they have by "hypnotising" people. Some think it's just fun, but psychedelic music is much more than that. It's a very complex form of art and it needs a lot of practice to offer responsible trips. Either the musician has to put the emotions "on hold" kind of "freeze" them to offer a rather open experience, or the musician has to be extra careful with the emotion (done with melodies) he involves.
  Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Aug 1, 2007 19:00
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RenderingRebel
IsraTrance Junior Member
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293
Posted : Aug 1, 2007 19:10
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My 2 cents..
I think there is not one way to describe what is psychedelic.
For instance, me and my musical partner write what is for us really psychedelic music. And many of the people that i know acknowledge this fact.
BUT! there's lots and lots of people that think it sounds like house music and say its not psychedelic because its too empty or something like this.
For me psychedelic music is everything but fullon psytrance, because the music has too much sudden changes.
To get into a trance i have to have some kind of element other than the kick and bass that is constant and athmospheres around it that changes the emotions and the mood in a flowing way. So not every 32beats a new melody and a break and uplifters explosions crashes and whatnot.
Though for other people this is exactly the other way around.
It is impossible to define the term psychedelic because its differnt for everybody and it just depends on your experiences.
SQL: http://www.myspace.com/sqlmusic
Coming up: Releases
Planned: make tracks |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
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1033
Posted : Aug 1, 2007 19:48
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Thanks Colin! 
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On 2007-08-01 19:10, RenderingRebel wrote:
there's lots and lots of people that think it sounds like house music and say its not psychedelic because its too empty or something like this.
For me psychedelic music is everything but fullon psytrance, because the music has too much sudden changes.
To get into a trance i have to have some kind of element other than the kick and bass that is constant and athmospheres around it that changes the emotions and the mood in a flowing way. So not every 32beats a new melody and a break and uplifters explosions crashes and whatnot.
Though for other people this is exactly the other way around.
It is impossible to define the term psychedelic because its differnt for everybody and it just depends on your experiences.
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Or maybe there is one definition but both yours, and your friends definitions are too surfacial and you both didn't find the psychedelic component in each others music?
Look. For just about EVERY word outthere one can come and say.. it's different for everybody. for example "car" for some electric driven three wheelers are still cars for others not etc. etc. at one point one has to bend to a definition that makes most sense.
I admit, it's difficult with "psychedelic" music, but it's nothing new, its existing for many years now, through all styles and there got to be somewhere a cross section.
I intensly listened to so many kinds of so called "psychedelic" music of all times... so many I first didn't understand, had to learn them.. in the end I found there is no musical element or whatever which allows definition but only the EFFECT which stays the same and makes it psychedelic.
I don't say this is THE definition, but at least it is a very open one and includes most of the music that I know which is acknowledged by many people as "psychedelic"
"Psychedelic music is music which gives the listener the impression of interaction with the music. Music with an own mind so to speak. For me psychedelic music brings the listener into a certain "trance" and therfore has the ability to lead the listener into himself or somewhere else, allowing amazing musical experiences, trips out and insides ones mind. "
Agreed, a big part of "FullOn" is not psychedelic, but not because of the breaks, but because its doesn't leave enough room for "probability", because its too transparent, too obvious, too one dimensional. Sure the breaks don't help, but I've heard songs with many breaks which where still very psychedelic, because the breaks werent just there to catch attention, but because they played an important role in the song.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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abraham316
Started Topics :
7
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121
Posted : Aug 1, 2007 20:24
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Jaadoo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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145
Posted : Aug 1, 2007 21:04
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IMHO
All music styles are psychedelic, coz music always influences mind directly, but in different ways.
I call i.e. Goa, and chill out mystic music and call full-on sort of dance music, but they are all mind manifesting.
I read someone wrote somewhere that Donna Summer was psychedelic!! I agree, for him/her it was.
https://soundcloud.com/jaadoo |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
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549
Posted : Aug 1, 2007 21:18
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@ subconsciousmind:
Even thou I agree with overall picture you've portrayed in your post I would like to point out few assumptions that you're making that should be more carefully examined.
1. If psychedelic experience means "manifestation of previously unknown aspects of one's mind" (and I think it does) than how can familiar musical patterns triggering familiar emotional reactions lead us to manifestation of previously unknown aspects of our mind?
If we take this into consideration artist should do it's best to avoid any familiar patterns that could evoke familiar states of mind (happy, sad, horror, tranquil or whatever).
2. Hypnotist can use music as induction but it will rarely work on large scale (for example on parties) because it demands absolute concentration on induction in order for induction to work and what is more important induction must be followed by specific command (so far I did not hear any psytrance track containing appropriate command).
Even if it would work in this manner without any suggestion the hypnotic trans will continue for maximum of 8 hrs and during that time person will sleep. As long as you move around the dance floor preforming voluntary or unconscious movements of the body you are not under a classic suggestive hypnosis.
3. Every repetitive event will have hypnotic effects on our mind. Driving on the highway passing by road marks is highly hypnotic also. Repetitive text on the bottom of the TV screen during news is also highly hypnotic but unlike music or driving it in fact contains commands and suggestions. So as far as the artist does not include suggestions and commands in his music I see no responsibility in producing psychedelic music.
4. Psychedelic music can be used as an induction if listener is willing to explore his mind and allows him self to flow with the beat. In that case it is more a form of a self hypnosis or self induced trance state. When this is the case person can chose his own experience and that again suggest that composer has no particular responsibility of that kind.
5. Assuming that familiar emotions evoked by repetitive music could result in psychedelic experience we must be aware that nobody can predict what kind of emotion will particular sound evoke. Since we all have different experiences the same sound can evoke radically different emotions in different subjects. There are some subliminal effects of certain frequencies in audible range of humans but those work on completely different mechanism and have no conscious manifestation for the listener.
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We are all aware of the strong effect that music has on our mind. When we gather at parties in hundreds or thousands the resonance of our minds tend to become coherent for those who tune in to the beat of music. Scientific studies have been preformed and have proved that EEG of people tuned into same music will become synchronized very soon. Similar effect to that when we put few pendulum clocks in the same room and within few hours they all work in perfect sync.
So there are some responsibilities involved and there is a lot to learn about influence of music on large number of listeners but hypnosis is not where we should look for the answer. Hypnosis is mostly used for suppression and psychedelic experience is almost the opposite behavior from suppression. Please don't confuse those because it could be very misleading.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
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549
Posted : Aug 1, 2007 21:45
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Quote:
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On 2007-08-01 21:04, Jaadoo wrote:
I read someone wrote somewhere that Donna Summer was psychedelic!! I agree, for him/her it was. |
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Exactly my point. Different people will have different reactions on same piece of music. But along with conscious perception of music we have also subconscious perception of music. Highly repetitive non fluid beats (like most of R'n'R beats) coupled with lyrics CAN induce posthypnotic suggestions regardless to ones conscious experience of that music. Most obvious examples are songs like "I can't get no satisfaction" or famous "Don't worry - be happy". The later is direct posthypnotic command induced trough right brain hemisphere. Complex linguistic constructions are used to induce suggestions trough left brain hemisphere and in PR profession they are called "double talk". One of benign examples would be: "the more you think about what you didn't want to know in the first place - the more you'll be aware of what you've already known when you've decided not to know what you already knew you know... so just relax!"
If anyone is interested in hypnotic and posthypnotic suggestions I suggest  careful examination of work made by dr. Milton H Ericson and dr. Richard Bandler. Similar techniques are also called NLP, NLR etc.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
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1033
Posted : Aug 1, 2007 21:50
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@shamantrixx,
sorry man you are missing my point.
1. Its much more complex than that. For instance one can use familiar patterns to provoke predjustice which one proves wrong again and combine them in unfamiliar way etc. etc. Endless at that point.
2. I just say one has to be brought back AS in hypnosis. I don't say its the same as Hypnosis.
3. See 2. Missing my point.
4. Missing my point
5. Start thinking from the "genuinity" point. Of course everybody feels different, but the genunity of expression is the important point.
--
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
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1033
Posted : Aug 1, 2007 21:51
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Donna summer, RnB psychedelic?? Of course man! Why not? Who said otherwise.. one has to be quite Narrow Minded to believe that psytrance and the doors is the only psychedelich music around
By the way I know Michal Jackson and shakira songs which have proven psychedelic to many people.
Open your minds. There is much more psychedelic music around than you think.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
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1033
Posted : Aug 1, 2007 21:58
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Quote:
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On 2007-08-01 21:45, shamantrixx wrote:
Different people will have different reactions on same piece of music. But along with conscious perception of music we have also subconscious perception of music.
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Again, missing my point. Thats of course true but has nothing to do with what I write above.
My Album is based on that fact. I express emotion, but on the album the listener is asked to fill empty spaces with his own names for the songs, since I assume that he will experience the songs completely different than me.
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch/scm/html/music/gfuehlsweid/gfuehlsweidconcept.shtml
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
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549
Posted : Aug 2, 2007 00:05
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I don't want to argue about influence of music but I've just wanted to clear out the possible similarities between hypnosis and psychedelic experience. I'm not comfortable with metaphors that have weak connection like this one you've used since one process is conscious and other unconscious. One includes free will while other is suggestive state of mind without functioning free will.
Of course it doesn't mean that you're post has no point... just inappropriate metaphor.
Since you've been kind enough to leave the link I've listened those few tracks available for preview. You make nice music and pay a lot attention to track progression and development of themes. Those qualities are quite rare to find in music these days. I sense strong goa influence but since I love good goa that works just fine for me.
What could be better is more diversity of sounds. Especially when it comes to lead synths... they all sound good but they all also sound the same. Some themes could be less obvious but I guess the maturity of music comes with time and can not be trained.
Overall impression is still very good. Production seams OK as far as I can hear from low quality samples on your page. Nice work... I hope to hear more from you in the future.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
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Posted : Aug 2, 2007 00:36
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@shamantrixx... from reading the first post on this thread it's clear to me that the only connection subconsciousmind was making between hypnosis and the psychelic experience was his opinion that a producer has a similar responsibility to a hypnotist - to make sure their journeys of the mind have an appropriate closure. Everything else is your construction, as far as I can tell. Ther is no 'metaphor' or even strong connection between the two implied in his posts, just a similarity in one aspect of responsibility.
This is an interesting thread, please don't divert it.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
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1033
Posted : Aug 2, 2007 00:50
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@Shamantrix.
I'm a bit stunned by the analytical and most of all surfacial way you looked at my music... Did you really just only listen to the song previews or at least once at the full album preview, before you gave that feedback?
Really, my album, what I do, is hard to understand for the typical psytrance listener.. those previews, or one listen for the whole album are far not enough for any kind of senseful feedback.
Quote:
| some themes could be less obvious but I guess the maturity of music comes with time and can not be trained. |
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Sorry to say that, but with your obviously surfacial, analyzis of my music you have just lost a lot of credibility. You really should have invested more time.
In the mean time I can say that I know relatively well what I'm doing and what the musical and productionals strengths and weaknesses of my 2004 Album are, but you just missed any of it.
Just a tip, but never give feedback to a song or even an album before you listened to it at least three times with full concentration. Did you do that? Try it.
No offense, but you really start to sound like one of these art critics who always talk and think about art but never understand it nor are able to do it.
Quote:
| I sense strong goa influence but since I love good goa that works just fine for me. |
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it will stay a mistery for me what this is supposed to mean... but your mind seems to funtion with very restricted patterns and drawers... open your mind man!
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch/scm/html/insight/insightstyle.shtml
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Alias
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
984
Posted : Aug 2, 2007 02:01
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very interesting......sub
first of all.....im giving you full respect because you as producer
have some vision and meaning of psychedelic trance....not just killer bassline and killa kick!
what about psy drugs?
drugs were always connected to psychedelic music....if you like it or not
for many ppl this is the best way to connect to this music!
for many ppl this is psychedelic experience......drugs+psy music!
ofcourse for someone Donna summer is psychedelic......
but you can imagine somebody on lsd dancing in donna summer's music? 
im not using drugs and im not saying that drugs and psy music is must!
i think that there is very strong connection!
www.myspace.com/aliasix |
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