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THose annoying subfrequencies
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Conny
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
224
Posts :
149
Posted : Mar 25, 2006 13:21
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Hi !
Started with a track for a while ago.
Made every instrument sound good and put every sound in each own frequency range so it doesn´t colide with other sound in the mix.Well now the mix sounds quite good except for one thing.
THe subfrequencis are to strong and it sounds
bad though i have used an eq to make place for the bass and kick.
How can i solve this problem ?
I believe i should use a highpassfilter to remove some bass from the kick and bass.
But i have no idea where i should cut with the highpassfilter, so some guidelines would be very welcome.
Best regards Conny |
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FluoSamsara (Oxygen)
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
1164
Posted : Mar 25, 2006 14:42
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i think everything bellow 30-40hz can be cut.
also, don´t push much too much on the 60-85 range, this is definetelly an important area where the energy of the bass lives, but boosting it too much will take all the energy of the mix making it all less clear... be very carefull and precise in the 85 -150 range (depending on your root note) this will add a lot of definition to the sub sounds and is where most of the important bass sound stands in psy. 200-300hz will make sound "warmer", but again, boosting too much will kill all the mix.
One problem that happens a lot at least with me, is that I tend to eq kick and bass on their own, giving too much power to the low frequencies, and they do sound punchy on their own, but then when they play with the rest of the mix I can´t hear them properlly, and I need to boost (or soften the cuttings) of the mid/high fre in the 1000hz range and 5-7khz sometimes to add more clarity and definition in the mix.
Now these are my own VERY GENERAL guidelines from my own experience, not any book source, please fell free to correct me.
boomz
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Raoul V
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
583
Posted : Mar 27, 2006 11:25
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@conny - using a spectrum analyser such as paz from waves will tell u where the sounds on ur mix are lying...
solo the kick and bass and analyse... from what ur saying i can almost guarentee your 50 - 80 range is boosted much higher than the rest of the track...
also on ur leads, cutting 20 - 180 hz gives the bass more room, and with drum loops and perc i cut upto 500... depending on how it sounds
remember that 'supposedly' the human ear cannot hear below 30hz so cutting ur bass upto there is a good idea, because those freq take mad space and just make it sound tooo subby.
if u find that after ur mix ur still getting a muddy sound try a small thin cut at around 300 hz on the whole track which removes mudiness..
again this is all from experince, so pls feel free to offer a diff in opinion... |
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Conny
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
224
Posts :
149
Posted : Mar 30, 2006 13:08
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Ok i started to mix my song.First i added a highpassfilter to both my bass and kick and then continued with an eq.
I found out i had to cut a lot with eq in the bottomend before i got the sound i wanted.
I believe i will make my kick in a higher frequency in the future to avoid this problem.
I still have problems to know where to set my values
for the highpassfilters on the kick and bass before i start using an eq.
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bholenath
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
1137
Posted : Mar 30, 2006 16:51
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i use the paz analyser from waves.. and even tho everything below 60 is cut properly.. it still shows frequencies there...wht should i doo?
 ....good fudge comes on slow!!! |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 30, 2006 17:15
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don t trust in the pad analyser the bass region is not right for me ,it s always picking at 60 hertz, try a other one ,voxengo have one for free or inspector is good too and then compare to a released track you like. |
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NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Mar 30, 2006 17:28
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whatch out so youre not clipping the e.q. that'll add sub elements...
Also... it might not actually be your kick and bass that are the problem... have you made sure your other sounds are properly highpassed?
Otherwise you might get interference with the bassline...
use a proper spectrogram if you want to analyse the frequencies... anyway... even if the paz isn't particularly specific, if it shows bass frequencies they ARE there...
And i very much don't think you should be highpass at 60Hz bholenath... even 30-40Hz for me is to much to cut off...
If you're using REQ as a highpass filter make sure the highpass Q value is set to 1.0... that's when it works best at cutting away frequency's... if you have the Q value higher (or lower) it will still let bass frequencies through...
@conny... maybe try to use a notch in the e.q. and sweep it down to find to find the particularl subby frequencies, and then reduce their gain.. 
Good luck
www.myspace.com/beat_nik |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 30, 2006 17:55
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use shelf filter in your eq if you have to much bass. |
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bholenath
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
1137
Posted : Mar 30, 2006 18:42
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@NikC yep...its just the kick+bass playing... ill try the other stuff you've mentioned and post back ASAP.. thnx
@PoM will try out the voxengo one..thnx
....good fudge comes on slow!!! |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Mar 30, 2006 19:04
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A good idea in this case, if youi have the option, hook up your hifi speakers and listen how it sounds when you turn the bass boost on... if it overload then its no good, you need to find the perfect spot where it sounds good without bass boost but not overloading with it...
also remember its better for people to add bass them selfs then to have to cut bass... its just more fun...
and dont mix the bass&kick too high cause you lose headroom and wont be able to turn the volume up...
i think here you will have good use of some F&M insight...
cause if the percs sound too low while on moderate volume and the bass is too obvious, if you now raise the volume maybe the percs will sound good but the bass will goo through the roof...
compression can be a good tool if you want the mix to sit tight in different volumes...
bla bla... just experiment... 
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Raoul V
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
583
Posted : Mar 31, 2006 09:33
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hey,
also try the inspector plugins, the analyser's are brilliant..
i tend to use both the paz and inspector...
good luck
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C3PO
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
29
Posts :
510
Posted : Mar 31, 2006 13:54
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Mar 31, 2006 16:27
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i think also sidechain can help (that the bass will compress when kick comes in)
or realy to cut some sub around 30hz-50hz from bass/kick. what sounds good..
sometimes u dont have too much sub but too much 60hz then no need to cut just take some off.. and notice the 50hz very good.. it effects the sub alot 
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Mar 31, 2006 17:36
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Quote:
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On 2006-03-30 19:04, New Era Scientist wrote:
A good idea in this case, if youi have the option, hook up your hifi speakers and listen how it sounds when you turn the bass boost on... if it overload then its no good, you need to find the perfect spot where it sounds good without bass boost but not overloading with it...
also remember its better for people to add bass them selfs then to have to cut bass... its just more fun...
and dont mix the bass&kick too high cause you lose headroom and wont be able to turn the volume up...
i think here you will have good use of some F&M insight...
cause if the percs sound too low while on moderate volume and the bass is too obvious, if you now raise the volume maybe the percs will sound good but the bass will goo through the roof...
compression can be a good tool if you want the mix to sit tight in different volumes...
bla bla... just experiment...
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yeah man... well said... only one thing i'd say though, psytrance isn't really designed for home hi-fi listening, but more for big fat rigs...
I know from experience that many mastered psy CD's don't sound good with bass boost either...
To be honest, just listen and use other tracks (which you like) as references for how powerful you want each element to be...
hmm... otherwise i don't know... it's all about the e.q. in this case... maybe you're running something else in the master track which you haven't realised?
u using alright monitors too?
hmm
Good luck?
www.myspace.com/beat_nik |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Mar 31, 2006 22:08
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NikC - are you asking me those questions?
i would use tracks that are good and that i think is well balanced as reference.. not cause i like the musical content, that dont have much to do with the production aspect..
so seperate those things and listen to well balanced tracks...
big systems dont make too much bass or too much of anything sound good..
a track should suite as many systems as possible,
most of the time people play the music in their home stereo, or even boombox... give them some space to play with, you dont want to blow their system just cause they accidently activated the bass boost?
Actually when i look at a track and see that it has some dynamics left i get impressed... of course they wont sound as loud as the squashed tracks, but they are way more friendly to listen to...
do your own test, bring some tracks into cubase, right click in the mixer section and choose "Global meter settings - meter input" import some tracks and mute them and check their dynamic difference
or try it in adobe audition, right click the dB meter and choose hold peaks, i dont have the app infront of me but you can make some cool settings, "peak hold" and check different tracks their aswell.. still this wont apply to frequency content, which is a important part. but it can be interesting too see that they peak at almost same place but the difference in overall perceived volume differ..
most important is to try the mix in many systems... compare how much you can turn up the volume compared to other tracks, that you like and think sound good... or even dont like but you think sound well balanced.. often its a matter of the kick being mixed too loud or the snare, or the bass..
its some kind of competition amongst artitst, my track is louder than yours... thats just silly cause in the end its the musical content.. and if you want it louder you can turn the volume up..
still for commerical music my arguments wont last long...
cheers! 
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