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There is no "Fuck you Israel"
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 5, 2011 18:55
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On 2011-05-05 18:04, freakOnTrip wrote:
Beat Agency
I saw the movie. I know the arguments raised there, as some of the participants. I even personally know Mr. Avnery, who fought with my grandparents in the War of Independence, but I totally disagree with his views, certainly not following the political developments in the last twenty years in the region.
I wanted to ask what in your eyes is the most important argument comes from the movie? What is it you want me to learn from it? Please do not think I'm cynical or ironic, I really think it is possible to conduct a discussion here, almost civilized, on this issue.
I again ask Have you read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? This book can certainly be a starting point for discussion on the subject.
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Nope I haven't read "he Protocols of the Elders of Zion" I will look for it and read it but I don't think it's essential for this debate 
What I hope you will learn from this documentary are the following valid points:
That Israeli children are just as brainwashed into believing (false) that the world hate them and that they have to watch their backs everywhere they go, as the example where they are in Poland and are told - and believe without a doubt - that everybody are out to harm them or everybody hate them (and by that are not allowed to go anywhere or to even speak to the Polish people). The example with the 3 old men being curious and kind to the two girls is clear proof that the brainwash is working + all the brainwash they are subject to prior to the trip to Poland in their School and while staying in Poland.
The point is also that Israel blame the Palestinians for brainwashing their children, and yes it is a legit point, but Israel does the same kind of Brainwash to it's own children and then the pointing fingers at the Palestinians is no longer a valid excuse.
It's not me who make this up. It's spelled out quite clear in this Documentary made by an Israeli and where all participants are Israelis and Jewish people around the World (except for a few afro-americans). Even the Israeli Children say they are brainwashed from a young age to think the world hate them and that there is a lot of antisemitism going on no matter where they go (even though anyone asked in this documentary have a hard time finding any example of antisemitism) and that they should never forgive.
The documentary is very clear and to the point. The so-called antisemitism is an huge industry maintained by rich non religious Jewish Americans (who see Israel as their guarantee IF a new Hitler should arrive) who manipulate the reality to their own agendas. And Politicians in Israel use antisemitism as an excuse to brainwash it's children to grow up full of hate as well as fear in their hearts. They keep the Israelis and Jews around the world in a deadlock of "everybody hate us", "we are the tormented people" etc. Preventing them to move forward.
There are so many valid and good points being shown and said in this documentary. But if one is not prepared to open the eyes then nothing will change for the person closing the eyes to the reality.
Now I know the world is not black/white and of course there are racists in every country. But you even see here in this debate that the minute someone raise criticism (wrong or right) he/she is being labeled an Anti-Semite. I've tried it myself in debates.
It's simply no longer a valid accusation as I strongly believe it's being misused (caused by an upbringing where children are made to believe if Israel and it's politics is being criticized it's because the one criticizing hate Jewish people) to prevent people from criticizing the State of Israel's politics.
That's some of the points i get from this IMO amazing documentary.
What I also hope you will learn from this documentary is the point that Israelis should stop using the term Anti-Semite in debates and debate without always thinking everybody hate them and are out to harm them.
Peace and hugs
  www.beatagency.dk |
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freakOnTrip
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Posted : May 5, 2011 19:27
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On 2011-05-05 18:15, Colin OOOD wrote:
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On 2011-05-05 18:04, freakOnTrip wrote:
I again ask Have you read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? This book can certainly be a starting point for discussion on the subject.
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The "Protocols..." is a work of fiction and as such is not really an ideal starting point for discussion about anything pertaining to the real world.
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hey colin. First of all I must say that in my opinion, the relationship between you and trance cultural is identical to the relationship between Galileo and astronomy or Gutenberg and knowledge. Huge respect ! !
The protocols are an excellent starting point because it is a German folk tale, which was connected to Jews, published in the current version of the nineties of the nineteenth century in Russia, less than twenty years after William Marr founded the League anti-Semitism in Berlin.
Do you know any other document before the protocols as published in Russia?
"....Lama tashiti li.....?" |
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e-scape
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
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351
Posted : May 5, 2011 19:40
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Pavel,let this topic R.I.P... |
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freakOnTrip
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Posted : May 5, 2011 19:43
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Thanks Beat Agency. I read and I promise to return with my thoughts on this subject. It may sound like an excuse but at this moment my wife is threatening that she will make me a hate crime herself if I will not leave the computer and be with her for awhile ... And there isn't anyone in the world I'm afraid of him as I afraid of her .....
I would also like to know what do you think about the "mohamad crisis". What you consider most important right in this case, freedom of speech or the right to dignity and to be respected ?
"....Lama tashiti li.....?" |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 5, 2011 19:53
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No worries mate Your wife should get 1st priority
I think the Muhammad crisis was a shameful thing for Denmark. As the real story behind was not to start a debate but to provoke and ridicule danish Muslims. I believe in freedom of speech but also respect of people's religion and ethnic heritage. And by the way I am not member of the danish church or any religion
www.beatagency.dk |
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Dogon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
50
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8779
Posted : May 5, 2011 19:57
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On 2011-05-05 19:43, freakOnTrip wrote:
Thanks Beat Agency. I read and I promise to return with my thoughts on this subject. It may sound like an excuse but at this moment my wife is threatening that she will make me a hate crime herself if I will not leave the computer and be with her for awhile ... And there isn't anyone in the world I'm afraid of him as I afraid of her .....
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We were born naked & grow up to become wicked. |
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freakOnTrip
Started Topics :
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72
Posted : May 5, 2011 22:23
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On 2011-05-05 19:57, Dogon wrote:
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On 2011-05-05 19:43, freakOnTrip wrote:
Thanks Beat Agency. I read and I promise to return with my thoughts on this subject. It may sound like an excuse but at this moment my wife is threatening that she will make me a hate crime herself if I will not leave the computer and be with her for awhile ... And there isn't anyone in the world I'm afraid of him as I afraid of her .....
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"....Lama tashiti li.....?" |
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freakOnTrip
Started Topics :
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Posted : May 6, 2011 00:14
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First thing I want to say that I oppose to those tense trips to Poland that pushing children to manage to see "eight death camps, two concentration camps and four testimonies from survivors in five days + night off in Krakow". The structure of this trips are absolutely wrong, and it does not create a real option for children really understand the meaning of what they see and feel, or in other words, to succeed to connect the past and present.All this, plus the fact that for many of them this is the first trip abroad or at least without the parents.
This is also why I had not been such a journey in high school. I got to experience it in a different framework that brings together Israeli high school students with the Holocaust.
My father volunteered for several (manny years ago) to be headof a program that brings together groups of students from Israel and Germany for a period of two weeks.
Every year in April hosted German students in Israel in August for two weeks and vice versa. The students travel together in the new countryand meetnew culture. One day was devoted to to visit the Yad Vashem Museum in Israel two days visits in concentration camps in Germany. The point is that we could learn together about the "shared" history is because our group was formed not just around this issue. The atmosphere was very tolerant and I think this pattern can make good for students from both countries. I met some lovely people from this program and with some I am in touch today. I am trying to say that the visit in the camp is very important and powerfull for israelis students.
I think if this trip ends with racist comments like in the movie, there is definitely a big miss and that wasnt the intention in my opinion.
From here to compare it to the brainwashing of Palestinian society passes through the media and programs of study has a very large distance.
State of Israel will never not lecture and direct harm to innocent people, unlike the Palestinian Authority and Hamas.
There are many studies proving a link between anti-Israeli propaganda in Palestinian society and volunteering of young Palestinians to carry out a suicide attack.
And speaking of the protocols, so the only countries that the popularity of the book continues to rise in the last forty years is the Arab states, Egypt and Syria also had a television programs based on the book over the past decade.
Since it takes me so long to write in English and since I wrote here all last night messages to myself instead of sleeping and because in seven hours I have to be at work, I'll stop now and continue tomorrow. I will finish in that I think today, after the establishment of Israel, there is nothing for Jews in the world "complain" about anti-Semitism, but they should come and live in Israel - the eternal state of the Jewish people.
ONE LOVE
ONE HEART
LETS GET TOGETHER AND FEEL ALLRIGHT
"....Lama tashiti li.....?" |
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full_on
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
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Posted : May 6, 2011 00:19
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One Love is a great way to end an endless discussion, congrats.
Respect!
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...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
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...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell... |
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