| Author
|
The "what should it be called" thread
|
Melancholyman
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
233
Posted : Apr 11, 2011 13:05
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-10 23:53, andrew interchill wrote:
Gunter - you've nailed the pointlessness of attempting to categorise music; - how can we be sure we are A - talking about the same things, and B - deriving the same meaning from the terms used.
Quite apart from it being a meaningless exercise I also think the basic urge to put sounds in a neatly defined and objective box should be resisted.
Mushroom mag recently did this mind map for all the different trance subgenres and wanted a number of us to try and apply it to the chill genre.
The beauty of the music that appears on this board is that it draws from many different sources, genres, influences and such - it is this that makes it interesting.
music that has a narrow gene pool might be easier to categorise
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-11 00:27, vector_0 wrote:
trance and other dance music can be easily categorized because its all so similar that even the slightest variation in the established formulas make it seem like a totally different "genre."
"psy"anything should be avoided because its entirely up to the individual to decide what is and is not psychedelic.
I don't like "chillout" because that implies that the music is soft and mellow, but this is often not the case....i hear lots of energy in my favorite downbeat tracks.
I also don't like "ambient" because, to me, that means background music, or beatless textures.
when people from the square community ask what kind of music i'm listening to, it usually takes more than one or two words...."its trippy downbeat ethno techno kinda stuff." among electronica fans or ravers i assume a bit more of their genre knowledge and, depending on the track/artist, i will use one or two of the following: chillout, worldbeat, dub, trip hop, slow trance, ambient...
I'm liking my previous submission of "ambient fusion" more since i posted that because it gives a slight idea of what kind of music it is, but is still wide open and could include many styles. "ambient" meaning atmospheric/electronic, but the "fusion" means progressive, experimental, or genre bending in any way you can imagine.
|
|
Yes it is indeed pointless tp label music, and at the same time it isn't. It is pointlss because you can never have an adequate account of any genre, the edges will always be fuzzy. It's not pointless because having a label for music is for convenience, it's for practical purposes, so we need to have a word to be able to talk in a way that we don'e completely talk around each other.
Vector has pointed out exactly my feelin and why I started the thread, I just feel as downtempo is a bad term, unimaginative and boring. I mean that all the music fitting into downtempo now or can be described using that term, would be described with the new term. There is no point, why clean your room? Bcs it's für nice, and why change a boring term? It's für nice 
 
http://thenoseisperpendicular.blogspot.com/ |
|
|
|
Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Apr 11, 2011 13:19
|
IMO too many labels kill the music.
Personally I do think Downtempo or Chillout is perfect. I am not caught up in all the lingo about psy etc. It really does not matter. What matters is that people have a broad reference when looking for music may it be psy-chill, melodic Ibiza chill, glitzy etc. The two tested and proved to be working genre descriptions "Downtempo or Chillout" does the work perfect and direct people in the right direction. Then it's up to them to chose according to their taste.
www.beatagency.dk |
|
|
|
TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
743
Posted : Apr 11, 2011 13:41
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-11 13:19, Beat Agency wrote:
IMO too many labels kill the music.
|
|
Yay to dead music! 
I think you seem to imply too many labels have lowered the bar/standard of music, to which I would answer that that is no bad thing. I suspect rather the explosion of access to music making technologies and information has meant that the bar infact has been raised. And now you seem to bitch that you can't jump over it. It must be hard being special once back last millenia, and now you're just one of the "great unknown mass".  (all meant very light heartedly, jovial and not in spite)
www.youtube.com/trancevisuals
2,000,000+ views and counting. |
|
|
|
Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Apr 11, 2011 14:06
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-11 13:41, TranceVisuals wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-11 13:19, Beat Agency wrote:
IMO too many labels kill the music.
|
|
Yay to dead music!
I think you seem to imply too many labels have lowered the bar/standard of music, to which I would answer that that is no bad thing. I suspect rather the explosion of access to music making technologies and information has meant that the bar infact has been raised. And now you seem to bitch that you can't jump over it. It must be hard being special once back last millenia, and now you're just one of the "great unknown mass". (all meant very light heartedly, jovial and not in spite)
|
|
Yeah what a nice, polite and "lighthearted" way of communicating with me 
It seem no matter what I say from the heart is "bitching" to you. Could you please stop assuming things and maybe try to understand what I write before jumping to conclusions and attack my person? Where did I bitch here? I never said anything about the music lowered the bar/standard.
What I meant was that why change something that is already working?
And yes I do think too many genre categories kill the music in the way it gets even more hard to find the music for those who are not familiar with the music.If you use too many categories chances are you split up a scene (just take a look at the psytrance scene as an example) instead of unite it and prevent people from listening to the music because the music is not to be found due to the sub-genre label. It's not easy to find let's say a psy-chill tune if it's not included under example Downtempo when someone search within that genre description. And believe me most people use this term or "chillout" when you look beyond the psytrance circuit.
That was my points. So next time I write something please do me the favor and take off your judgmental hat regarding my person and opinion and actually try to understand what it is I am saying. If you doubt it maybe ask instead of accusing.I am not such a bad persona s you seem to think I am and I never attack any of you personally as you seem to do to me 24/7
PS! I am sure I am now being blamed for being arrogant, bitching and wanting to fight even though I never started a fight or had any intention to fight when I wrote my view on the topic.
www.beatagency.dk |
|
|
|
TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
743
Posted : Apr 11, 2011 14:17
|
Sorry I was just joshing with you, didn't mean to touch a raw nerve.
In answer to your question above, things don't stay still, they always change, the trick seems to be with going along with changes, rather than complaining about them/wondering what if.
Labels seem to be for shopkeepers, and I think are a part of a past consumer style shopping experience, that the explosion of mass music has changed.
www.youtube.com/trancevisuals
2,000,000+ views and counting. |
|
|
|
Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Apr 11, 2011 14:28
|
It's very hard to see if people are joking here and I don't find your personal "joke" about me funny at all as it's used to bring me down (That's the way i see it).
But I accept the apology
Who is complaining? I am certainly not. I just believe it's better to keep genre descriptions that work perfect as they are than to make up new ones. After all I am sure everyone (especially the artists) agree that it's a good thing if people who does not know our music are able to find our music. If genre labels are changed then those outside the scene who only know about more commercial chillout/downtempo will have a very hard time finding our music if it's not included when they search for "downtempo/chillout".
www.beatagency.dk |
|
|
|
TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
743
Posted : Apr 11, 2011 15:09
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-11 14:28, Beat Agency wrote:
.....as it's used to bring me down (That's the way i see it).
|
|
Only if you let it, I thought you had thicker skin than that from the way I have observed your behaviour across various forums for the past three or four years since you hit my radar. You do come across as a "forum slugger" rather than a "Queensbury rules forum pugilist".
May I suggest you develop what they call in occult circles some call "psychic shielding", so you don't let shit said by people like my/ourselves affect you so much. It might also help if you weren't so quick to "put up your dukes" too, but hey it's no skin off my nose, as I don't engage in "fights" generally.
Quote:
|
But I accept the apology
|
|
Just keeping the peace, sir!
Quote:
|
Who is complaining? I am certainly not. I just believe it's better to keep genre descriptions that work perfect as they are than to make up new ones. After all I am sure everyone (especially the artists) agree that it's a good thing if people who does not know our music are able to find our music. If genre labels are changed then those outside the scene who only know about more commercial chillout/downtempo will have a very hard time finding our music if it's not included when they search for "downtempo/chillout".
|
|
I genuinely don't believe that label/titles and little descriptive tags are going to make anyone find "our" art any easier. Now rather than debating on an obscure forum, and getting out there amongst the mass of which we are a part, in whichever fashion you imagine will probably do more "good" for our art than anything else.
Personally I don't have a problem with being "popular" with my art, as over 1,000+ people a day actively seek out my work, and the comments/feedback are overwhelmingly positive, though of course what I do is a little different from yourself, but I have found that I am more accessible if I don't "hang labels" on what I do, even if there is a part of me, normally my internal dialogue/ego that screams in my head how I should, and that what I do is "this or that".
On the otherhand, getting a decent gig, or making any money out of one's art, seems to puzzle me no end.
Personally I like music/art "that talks to me", but I have yet to find a label for that.
I guess I am saying, what we call it doesn't matter half/a millionth as much as what we do.
www.youtube.com/trancevisuals
2,000,000+ views and counting. |
|
|
|
Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Apr 11, 2011 16:11
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-11 15:09, TranceVisuals wrote:
Only if you let it, I thought you had thicker skin than that from the way I have observed your behaviour across various forums for the past three or four years since you hit my radar. You do come across as a "forum slugger" rather than a "Queensbury rules forum pugilist".
May I suggest you develop what they call in occult circles some call "psychic shielding", so you don't let shit said by people like my/ourselves affect you so much. It might also help if you weren't so quick to "put up your dukes" too, but hey it's no skin off my nose, as I don't engage in "fights" generally.
|
|
I got plenty of thick skin but I really dislike when someone, like you did in a very obvious way, try to make my non offensive personal opinion into something it's not. You can call me whatever you like and think whatever you like about me (you don't know me anyway) but give it a rest and get off my back (it's not the first time you lashed out against me) and stop twisting my writing into something it's not and stop accusing me of things I do not do. It's a debate killer.
It's really funny how I am being accused by you as being the bad one here even though it's not me who attacked you or tried to be "funny" on your behalf. And if you take a good look at the debates where you accuse me of being "the bad guy" I do not start a fight. Someone else do
I always believed in before pointing fingers at other people you need to look into the mirror yourself. Just a friendly suggestion since you feel lecturing me about how I should behave while you yourself seem to have a hard time recognizing your own bad behavior (Your apology to me does not seem genuine seen in the light you continue).
You might not "engage" in fights but you certainly tried to stir one up
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-11 15:09, TranceVisuals wrote:
I genuinely don't believe that label/titles and little descriptive tags are going to make anyone find "our" art any easier. Now rather than debating on an obscure forum, and getting out there amongst the mass of which we are a part, in whichever fashion you imagine will probably do more "good" for our art than anything else.
Personally I don't have a problem with being "popular" with my art, as over 1,000+ people a day actively seek out my work, and the comments/feedback are overwhelmingly positive, though of course what I do is a little different from yourself, but I have found that I am more accessible if I don't "hang labels" on what I do, even if there is a part of me, normally my internal dialogue/ego that screams in my head how I should, and that what I do is "this or that".
On the otherhand, getting a decent gig, or making any money out of one's art, seems to puzzle me no end.
Personally I like music/art "that talks to me", but I have yet to find a label for that.
I guess I am saying, what we call it doesn't matter half/a millionth as much as what we do.
|
|
Then what are you arguing about? We agree I said there is no need to add any more labels to the music as the labels we already got work (and since they are already used it would be hard to get rid of them).
End of story. I wrote my opinion and expect it to be just as valid as anyone else opinion here. If not then it's you who have a problem. Not me.
www.beatagency.dk |
|
|
|
liquidchill
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
283
Posted : Apr 11, 2011 16:38
|
|
the forum lately seems like watching a series! when is the next episode? |
|
|
|
Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Apr 11, 2011 16:54
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-11 16:38, liquidchill wrote:
the forum lately seems like watching a series! when is the next episode?
|
|
Probably in the next reply to my previous post
www.beatagency.dk |
|
|
|
TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
743
Posted : Apr 11, 2011 17:07
|
It was just some friendly advice, but if you want to continue to fight paper tigers you can waste your life however you feel.
You seem to revel in emotional reactions, or at least that is how you have come across to me over the years, and your valid points get lost in the flame-wars.
back on topic:
Indeed there might be no need for labels, but it seems to be a part of human nature, and in doing so, I would suggest some pleasure seems to be derided from making up new categories and labels. So an activity with is something we also should "swing" with, even if we know that it is an arbitary and seemingly unproductive endeavour. But then much the same could be said about art.music and dance in general.
www.youtube.com/trancevisuals
2,000,000+ views and counting. |
|
|
|
Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Apr 11, 2011 17:10
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-04-11 17:07, TranceVisuals wrote:
It was just some friendly advice, but if you want to continue to fight paper tigers you can waste your life however you feel.
|
|
You seem to have a hard time saying "sorry it was wrong of me to write what I did about you". Instead you again try to turn your wrong doing on me
Well peace with it as you really aren't worth any more attention.
www.beatagency.dk |
|
|
|
TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
743
Posted : Apr 11, 2011 17:21
|
|
Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Apr 11, 2011 17:48
|
|
TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
743
Posted : Apr 11, 2011 17:52
|
|
|
