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The role of a DJ or Live Act at a party
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 22, 2010 17:28
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Also "danceable" does not mean super-repetitive formulaic and generic. There is plenty of DANCEABLE music which is very distinctive.
The only thing necessary to be danceable is that there must be a certain amount of repetition... you can't change the rhythm over and over again within a short period of time, you have to repeat it a few times so that people dancing can learn it. |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 22, 2010 17:42
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Quote:
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On 2010-06-22 17:10, Shiranui wrote:
Anyway, making people think or trip out is not mutually exclusive with being danceable. There is plenty of music which does both.
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There seems to be a trade-off going on there, though. I believe you were the one who pointed it out elsewhere. Cheese and horror are just extreme examples of this trade-off. Music that combines “brains” with “legs” still does it in different proportions – and we’ll see a million arguments about what exactly the ratio “should” be – complete with pseudo-intellectual argumentation and unflattering names. It’s funny how quickly an enlightened liberal becomes a fascist when somebody disagrees with him. 
What’s wrong with having the full spectrum and letting every consumer fall into his own place in it?
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 22, 2010 17:55
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The problem is that there's a lot of trance which is neither danceable nor interesting (in my opinion).
I don't dislike dark trance in general it's just that there is almost as much formulaic copypaste dark trance as there is formulaic copypaste fullon and I think if you're going to make formulaic copypaste music it might as well be danceable |
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hardkornate
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 22, 2010 18:07
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As a recovering hardcore DJ, I think I have a unique perspective on this that some of the dark DJ's might want to consider...
When you are going to be the hardest act of the night, your job is still to keep the dancefloor. The object is not to see how hard you can take it how fast, but to trick the people that don't like it fast into dancing anyways. Sure, you can have a total fucking meltdown a few times during the set, but once you see theres only one shirtless dude left running in a circle, that means you played one too many burners in a row. The trick is to watch the crowd and see if they still WANT more. If they look like they are about to bail on you, stop it, play a sample, slow it down a notch or even drop a mash up or some turntablism to get them back into it. Shit, a single bass drum/snare by itself will usually get them back on board. Once you have them again, start speeding up the tracks at the breaks and keep pushing the limit until you see you need to back off again(of course, you dont have to back off as far this time) - rinse, repeat, and I guarantee you that you will have built a solid dancefloor by the end of the set. Ignore the crowd, and you will have two shirtless dudes moshing, a wiccan doing spells, and six fat guys nodding their heads with their arms crossed(and maybe if you are lucky, one or two hotties speakerfucking.)
In short, it IS a dance party. Making people dance IS the mission.
PS - I guess what I do would be top 40 masturbation 
 Spacecamppsyfari.com |
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 22, 2010 18:16
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I admit that I am biased because I like to make long, smooth mixes, so I tend to dislike music that makes long, smooth mixes impossible (like dark trance)
PS: hardkornate, good insight  |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 22, 2010 18:48
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Quote:
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On 2010-06-22 17:55, Shiranui wrote:
The problem is that there's a lot of trance which is neither danceable nor interesting (in my opinion).
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OK.
So, there are three components actually: brains, legs and shit.
So, to go back to the original question, here is my imho (probably < $0.02 worth):
- An artist’s role in a studio is to make sure there is as little shit as possible and not to bother himself with the other two components – whatever comes out, let it come out.
- A DJ’s role is to take only shitless stuff into his suitcase and to assess the ratio of the other two components – then present tracks according to the live situation on the floor.
- An organizer’s role is to make sure that DJs’ personal biases don’t clash with the overall design of the festival and to accommodate those biases as much as possible by assigning the appropriate time slots.
- A consumer’s role is to let the organizer, the DJ and the author know how they liked all this and whether it was too far from their own preferences.
Now, if you end up with shitty tracks then at least three people screwed up here, right?
And if you end up with too much cheese or horror at once – it’s the organizer’s fault first, the DJ’s second and none of the tracks’ authors’. Also, when some particular style appeals to 5% of attendees and is played 30% of the time, somebody screwed up big time. And again – it’s not the artists.
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I don't dislike dark trance in general it's just that there is almost as much formulaic copypaste dark trance as there is formulaic copypaste fullon and I think if you're going to make formulaic copypaste music it might as well be danceable
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Agree. Too much fake stuff – in every genre (not only psy, btw)
I have a feeling there may actually be more copy-paste darkpsy than copy-paste full on. Copy-paste full on is just much more visible. 
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light-o-matic
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 22, 2010 18:59
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This thread is bound to end in tears..
Ok here is how I see it: On one hand, as DJ's, we are supposed to be feeling out the situation, adapting. And I do that almost exclusively. I rarely plan more than one, maybe two tracks ahead. If things are not working, I WILL adapt, sometimes playing an entirely different set than what I originally had in mind.
On the other hand, I love psytrance. I have been to hundreds of events, I know the feeling, the essence of a good psytrance party. That is what I value and when I play at a psytrance event, that experience is what I am helping to create.
So yea, of course I am going to adapt to the situation, but you know what.. you can ALWAYS get a dancefloor playing certain things.. but that does not mean that as a psytrance DJ you should play those things at any place and at any time just to get a bigger dancefloor. I care about the people who want to dance RIGHT NOW. But I care more about the party as a whole, and I care more about the people who are there for a psytrance party who are ready for the kind of experience you get at a good psytrance party. Those are the people I want coming back next time.
I've had great dancefloors, I know how to do it.. That does not mean I am going to maximize the dancefloor every time at the expense of the whole party or experience.
Bottom line is that if all the other elements are right.. good people, good setting, good feelings, at least decent sound system, and well thought out DJ lineup.. then you do not need or want the DJs to be going all over the place with their music in an attempt to keep the floor constantly packed. A psytrance party is not like that and shouldn't be. A good DJ will care about the energy of the whole party and not just the number of people on the dancefloor in the next 5 minutes.
-Ben aka Hypnotoad (light-o-matic / PSI / Psybotik / Coalesence)
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MR VOMERS
Moderator
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36
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2094
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 19:26
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awesome post ben!
WARNING: The Reality Master General has determined that Mr. Vomit may significantly alter your reality. Usage of the knowledge provided by Mr. Vomit may be perceived as dangerous and subversive by those in authority. |
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Tizzy
IsraTrance Junior Member
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22
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533
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 21:46
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Quote:
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On 2010-06-22 17:10, Shiranui wrote:
Sounds like sour grapes to me :x Is someone self-conscious about their dancing? (just pulling your leg) |
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Is someone not self-conscious because they hide behind a furry mask?
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Tizzy
IsraTrance Junior Member
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533
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 21:47
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^^ sorry, spam.
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 22, 2010 22:32
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^
I'd say!.. 
The whole discussion just became a bit more psychedelic. |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
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95
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5380
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 23:00
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Quote:
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On 2010-06-22 17:42, Maine Coon wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-06-22 17:10, Shiranui wrote:
Anyway, making people think or trip out is not mutually exclusive with being danceable. There is plenty of music which does both.
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There seems to be a trade-off going on there, though. I believe you were the one who pointed it out elsewhere. Cheese and horror are just extreme examples of this trade-off. Music that combines “brains” with “legs” still does it in different proportions – and we’ll see a million arguments about what exactly the ratio “should” be – complete with pseudo-intellectual argumentation and unflattering names.
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I've always believed that good psytrance contains elements targeted to the following different body areas: Feet, hips, arms, fingers, heart + head.
Some of these have obvious counterparts in the music, for instance feet=kickdrum, hips=bassline, some don't, and some are more vaguely defined, such as heart and head, which I would say corresponded to the 'soul' in a track (the artist's expression? The degree to which the track makes you feel love for the universe?) and the amount of tricks and cleverclever shenanegans in the tune. If a track makes me smile directly, I consider it to have a lot of brain in it.
As for the OP, when I make music I'm an artist (or reasonable facsimile thereof), and when I'm performing it I'm (attempting to be) more of an entertainer; I see no contradiction between the two roles. Same as when I'm making music I'm doing it for the love of it, because that's what I do on this lovely shithole of a planet, and to get the damn stuff out of my head, but when any kind of negotiation has to take place then I necessarily have to have a slightly different head on.
Simple answer to the OP:
"Do you mean what's my role now? How about now? And now?"
Yeah ok that wasn't very simple but it's as simple as it gets for me!
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
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Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
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Posted : Jun 22, 2010 23:02
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Wow guys thanks for the mention That means a lot to read!
Personally, having had experience in both roles, this is how I see it:
(please excuse my use of he/his for both genders)
The strength of the DJ is in his versatility. His role is to showcase and highlight the best and bangin'est tunes for the genre(s) he plays while being versatile enough to read the crowd before/during his set and adjust the flow accordingly.
While most of the time, raising the dance energy is the goal, I won't mention that part for the sake of the ambinet/downtempo/etc. DJs who focus on keeping themselves innocuous and creating a certain atmosphere in general.
The role of the "live" is to showcase his art (in this case, his music). "Lives" tend to be weaker in the flexibility/versatility department compared to DJs. In effect, they tend to be one-trick ponies in that their sets are based around the music they create/have created. Thus when a live is booked, a good lineup will be centered around what the lives will do, thus, it's important for the DJs to know the music of the lives and also for the lives to communicate well with the DJs. Its also the booker/lineup maker's responsibility to do all these things.
Communication is key... that's what this is all about.
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Omega
Started Topics :
1
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61
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 23:19
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Quote:
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On 2010-06-22 23:00, Colin OOOD wrote:
Simple answer to the OP:
"Do you mean what's my role now? How about now? And now?"
Yeah ok that wasn't very simple but it's as simple as it gets for me!
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I wasn't hoping for simple answers
I'm much more interested in gaining some insight into the complex, nuanced, and highly personal thought processes of other artists |
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Androcell
Androcell
Started Topics :
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409
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 23:19
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The role of a DJ or Live Act at a party is to ensure that the promoter doesn't walk away with too much money or in many cases none at all. 
I love getting booked show after show with my one-trick pony. I call it an easy summer.
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