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the politics of style
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Jun 15, 2009 14:52:56
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the politics of style.
a "style" as a political party-
you decided you like "dark trance" or "full-on" or "proggy"
blind loyalty and brand identity allow you to completely ignore anything creative from outside that self-referential bubble.
most likely, your local organizers make events with this concept in mind. you will hear one style on an event unless its a major festival (and even some of those only have one kind of thing)
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thats one thought.
here's another:
if you were to introduce an album like x-dream radio today it would be called DARK by many people on this forum
same goes for Psychopod, Koxbox, etc... tracks from the 90's...
how has the commercial interest (of formulaic artists and organizers) changed the politics of psy?
much of the great music being made has been marginalized as "unsafe and not happy" and lumped with the hardcore revival/heavy metal goth thing by people on this forum for example.
Noobies- question the context-creation.
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Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
241
Posts :
2848
Posted : Jun 15, 2009 15:22
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the biggest name artist at the lowest price, thats all organizers in my part of the world look for... i think most organizers around the world do that too.....they get any artist of repute at the lowest or as some like to call it BEST price possible.
big name dark artists like Xenomorph, Cosmo, Fungus Funk, Para Halu or big name full on like Astrix, Talamasca, GMS attract pretty much the same crowd of psytrance lovers.
But when Skazi or Infected Mushroom are playing its a whole different breed of people along with psytrancers...
Style does not really matter..its only the artist's Brand that sells. Psytrance unlike House, Trance (tiesto kind) is a much smaller scene. The organizers i have come across will have darkpsy one night and next they would have full on...and on third theyd do a proggy, but not much of proggy as many psytrancers (noobies) confuse that with house music...so its just the Artist name that decides...or if you are dj from a label like SST, Doof, TIP, Phonokol, Phantasm, Spun, etc just the Label name will attract people.
 When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive |
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gutter
Inactive User
Started Topics :
54
Posts :
3018
Posted : Jun 15, 2009 16:19
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So this aims to new listeners?
taste and choose is the best advise
eating everything is a bad habit
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if you were to introduce an album like x-dream radio today it would be called DARK by many people on this forum
same goes for Psychopod, Koxbox, etc... tracks from the 90's...
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Probably would described as shit by kids that got into psytrance listening to Astrix 
Anyway imo people that love music will search, distinct and choose what they like and will go again to listen to the artist they like whenever/wherever there is a chance to listen to him/her
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Jun 15, 2009 17:21
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Quote:
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On 2009-06-15 15:22, Xolvexs wrote:
the biggest name artist at the lowest price, thats all organizers in my part of the world look for... i think most organizers around the world do that too.....they get any artist of repute at the lowest or as some like to call it BEST price possible.
big name dark artists like Xenomorph, Cosmo, Fungus Funk, Para Halu or big name full on like Astrix, Talamasca, GMS attract pretty much the same crowd of psytrance lovers.
But when Skazi or Infected Mushroom are playing its a whole different breed of people along with psytrancers...
Style does not really matter..its only the artist's Brand that sells. Psytrance unlike House, Trance (tiesto kind) is a much smaller scene. The organizers i have come across will have darkpsy one night and next they would have full on...and on third theyd do a proggy, but not much of proggy as many psytrancers (noobies) confuse that with house music...so its just the Artist name that decides...or if you are dj from a label like SST, Doof, TIP, Phonokol, Phantasm, Spun, etc just the Label name will attract people.
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true and i agree to some extent.
but you rarely (except on multi-day festivals) see someones concept of "the best acts across sub-genres"
that would be cool... a one night party that had a wide range of music styles but chosen based on the quality of the music (opinion of course) and not the format so much. (ok that might influence the timeslots but that can be played around with also a bit... )
but you are right about the "branding" and the association of that brand with a party. |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Jun 15, 2009 17:28
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : Jun 15, 2009 18:06
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Does someone expect party organizers to look for the *worst* deal? I know people that brought acts according to love of music alone, and in most cases, they ended up losing money. Blame the crowd for being stupid? Hey, it is OUR scene, blame yourself along with everyone, genius. Blame people for aiming at people new to the scene? Look at parties, it's 90% people aged 18-25. Expecting them to be walking encyclopedias of psytrance history is a bit much. The bottom line is that a big chunk just don't know the music all that well, and have only names to count on. They just want to have a good time, enjoyed a few parties in the past and want something that seems good. There is nothing wrong with that.
Making "the best act across sub-genres" is bloody expensive, and the only way to possibly cover that is aim at 1500+ people paying 25+ euros, so that's why it's limited to festivals. That's simple economics. Aiming at a smaller crowd with a lower risk is a much better bet to make unless you have serious financial backing. No one wants to lose 10000 euros because of bad weather or just bad luck unless they have much more than that to spare. That's where marketing comes in, and hence the importance of brands, labeling and slicing the scene into sub-genres.
No politics here. On one side the crowd doesn't spend time over-analyzing or even giving much thought to the lineup. On the other side, party organizers don't want to lose money. Neither do labels, which aim at small markets because there's very few acts that can attract people from all over the scene, and building a label name and distinction is critical to survival (for most).
Ohh, and prog music being confused as house is only a newbie thing. It would have nothing to do with tracks with someone calling "hou-hou-house music" being mixed in there and things like that.
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Jun 15, 2009 18:42
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Quote:
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On 2009-06-15 18:06, Kaz wrote:
Does someone expect party organizers to look for the *worst* deal? I know people that brought acts according to love of music alone, and in most cases, they ended up losing money. Blame the crowd for being stupid? Hey, it is OUR scene, blame yourself along with everyone, genius. Blame people for aiming at people new to the scene? Look at parties, it's 90% people aged 18-25. Expecting them to be walking encyclopedias of psytrance history is a bit much. The bottom line is that a big chunk just don't know the music all that well, and have only names to count on. They just want to have a good time, enjoyed a few parties in the past and want something that seems good. There is nothing wrong with that.
Making "the best act across sub-genres" is bloody expensive, and the only way to possibly cover that is aim at 1500+ people paying 25+ euros, so that's why it's limited to festivals. That's simple economics. Aiming at a smaller crowd with a lower risk is a much better bet to make unless you have serious financial backing. No one wants to lose 10000 euros because of bad weather or just bad luck unless they have much more than that to spare. That's where marketing comes in, and hence the importance of brands, labeling and slicing the scene into sub-genres.
No politics here. On one side the crowd doesn't spend time over-analyzing or even giving much thought to the lineup. On the other side, party organizers don't want to lose money. Neither do labels, which aim at small markets because there's very few acts that can attract people from all over the scene, and building a label name and distinction is critical to survival (for most).
Ohh, and prog music being confused as house is only a newbie thing. It would have nothing to do with tracks with someone calling "hou-hou-house music" being mixed in there and things like that.
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i think there is obviously a budget limit for the number and price of the acts for a given one-night-party versus a festival which can book more.. sometimes you see an organizer making a party with 6 live acts and you KNOW they are losing money etc...
but i don't completely agree that this necessitates booking only acts/dj's of the same sub-genre.
its a question of: do you want the diversity in crowd of a mixed lineup or do you want the core fanatics of one style?
obviously booking based on love of music is something completely different i can't speak about. thats more personal.
but i don't think economics dictates mono-style parties.
here's another question: is there any link between social/political views and stylistic preferences in terms of demographics- not anecdotal (statistical not individual)
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Jun 15, 2009 18:46
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Quote:
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On 2009-06-15 18:06, Kaz wrote:
Does someone expect party organizers to look for the *worst* deal? I know people that brought acts according to love of music alone, and in most cases, they ended up losing money. Blame the crowd for being stupid? Hey, it is OUR scene, blame yourself along with everyone, genius. Blame people for aiming at people new to the scene? Look at parties, it's 90% people aged 18-25. Expecting them to be walking encyclopedias of psytrance history is a bit much. The bottom line is that a big chunk just don't know the music all that well, and have only names to count on. They just want to have a good time, enjoyed a few parties in the past and want something that seems good. There is nothing wrong with that.
Making "the best act across sub-genres" is bloody expensive, and the only way to possibly cover that is aim at 1500+ people paying 25+ euros, so that's why it's limited to festivals. That's simple economics. Aiming at a smaller crowd with a lower risk is a much better bet to make unless you have serious financial backing. No one wants to lose 10000 euros because of bad weather or just bad luck unless they have much more than that to spare. That's where marketing comes in, and hence the importance of brands, labeling and slicing the scene into sub-genres.
No politics here. On one side the crowd doesn't spend time over-analyzing or even giving much thought to the lineup. On the other side, party organizers don't want to lose money. Neither do labels, which aim at small markets because there's very few acts that can attract people from all over the scene, and building a label name and distinction is critical to survival (for most).
Ohh, and prog music being confused as house is only a newbie thing. It would have nothing to do with tracks with someone calling "hou-hou-house music" being mixed in there and things like that.
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but it is true what you say about the limited research done by a dancing party crowd versus a sit-down-and-listen crowd on musical acts...
most people don't care. they just want it to flow and they want to have non-stop fun. |
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insane
Silent Horror
Started Topics :
67
Posts :
1983
Posted : Jun 15, 2009 20:07
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^ exactly ,reaching down to the roots is not happenin any more .
------------------------------
NEMESIS - DEVILSMIND RECORDS - 2007
PATTERNS EP - DEVILSMIND RECORDS _ 2009
SEANCE - DEVILSMIND RECORDS - 2011
PATTERNS II EP - DEVILSMIND RECORDS _ 2013 |
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lord_bhairava
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
271
Posted : Jun 15, 2009 21:41
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i think many dudes do suicide because the unsafe music from ocelot lol |
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rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
2184
Posted : Jun 16, 2009 00:05
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Lock the topic.
No political talk allowed on isratrance.
(actually I've just got nothing to say. hasn't this topic already been beaten lifeless already? This is all that needs to be said:)
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Noobies- question the context-creation.
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Jun 16, 2009 20:44
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Simple solution:
Bring back the DJs and let them play long sets.
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"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Jun 16, 2009 20:45
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Oh... and open your mind.
---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Jun 16, 2009 20:45
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almost_human KROX ( Phantasm Rec .)
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
2369
Posted : Jun 16, 2009 23:30
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On 2009-06-16 20:45, disco hooligans wrote:
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On 2009-06-16 20:44, shahar wrote:
Simple solution:
Bring back the DJs and let them play long sets.
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+1.
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+1 Boom !!! 
UVV Project / Mandala Project / Crystal noize Project / Cosmic Crew
Be not angry that you cannot make others as you wish them to be, since you cannot make yourself as you wish to be. |
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