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The Mother of all Playing Live Thread
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Aluminol
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
27
Posted : May 1, 2008 02:31:19
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I thought with all the great threads and information we have on this wonderful site this is probably the one we have little info on & could get going.
Let's have it
"What do you use for your sequencer out live?"
"How do you set your audio channels out?"
"What do you use on these channels?"
"What Synths/Vsts do you use live?"
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xrust
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
Posts :
1742
Posted : May 1, 2008 03:01
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why do i have the sense that this thread will become an ipod promotion thread ?? 
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Mesq
Reality Pixie
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
671
Posted : May 1, 2008 08:05
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I know what I say will have very little effect cos I'm not a superstar DJ like you wanna hear from but...
Anyway:
I use Ableton Live with a Novation remote 25 SL midi controller using the Ableton Live automap which enables me to use the Novation as a control surface for Live. This gives me control over Scene Triggering and Mixer Levels as well as some FX parameters.
I also use an Edirol PCR 30 simply for my frantic synth tweaking cos it is old and Im not afraid if I break one of the pots or faders.
The way I do it is I bounce down all my patterns/loops and MIDI files from my tracks and then rearrange them into Scenes in Live. Most of the scenes are 16-32 bars long however I can let them play as long as I want. I trigger the stop and play and scroll down with my Remote 25 SL. I also use "Follow on" actions so I can automate clips to play when I want them to play. I use keyboard notes on my Novation to also trigger/re-trigger individual MIDI and Audio clips.
My Audio tracks are arranged according to their purpose and their spectral profile... so for instance all my Bass tracks are on the same Audio channel which has a Multiband compressor on it to even out all the signals.. I have channels for leads, channels for hats, claps, snares and channels for breakdowns, channels for Vocal Samples and Orchestral stuff...
Here is a pic of what I am talking about anyway
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8355/realitypixieliveqk2.jpg
In this picture you can see I am using almost 30 Audio tracks and you can also see the clips I am using and the way my scenes are arranged. The blank scenes are scenes in which there are Automated "Follow on Actions".
In this live set I have four VSTi synths loaded which play MIDI clips... I have mapped the parameters so I can tweak them live...I have also mapped individual clips to Keyboard Keys so I can trigger/retrigger them whenever I want...I also have mapped percussion like crashes to the Novation percussion pads. I also have mapped Auto filter to my MIDI controller on a bass channel and on the master channel for breakdowns and buildups..
Here is a picture of my MIDI mappings...
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1103/realitypixielivemidimapxb6.jpg
On the left you can see the Parameters which are mapped to the CC controllers and the clips which are mapped to keyboard notes.
On the right you can see the clips which are mapped and their note number.
When I don't have access to my midi controllers then I can play a prerecorded live set which...if I have access to someone elses MIDI controller I can quickly map some parameters to if I wish.
Here is a picture of a prerecorded live set with automation that I can re-map to play live if I want.
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/9053/realitypixieprerecordedmw1.jpg
Its all a bit hard to explain but if you know much about live you will sorta be able to know what im talking about.
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Mesq
Reality Pixie
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
671
Posted : May 1, 2008 08:44
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-aeon-
Aeon
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
546
Posted : May 1, 2008 08:45
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^a very lucid explanation  kudos to another live / pcr-m30 user 
i work exclusively in Live 6, running on a 2.16ghz / 2gb core 2 duo laptop. i play synths and control Live using an Edirol PCR-M30 midi controller. i play electric violin, which goes through a shitty zoom pedal into a shittier behringer DI box... i know, i know :S
i tend to render, master and load finished song in their entirety, then automate the set's master tempo to match.
on the midi side, i then have a different synth/sampler on each of 16 channels, for live improvisation. typically these will include:
- one 'malleable' synth, with main parameters (waveform, pitch, filter type, cutoff, envelopes etc.) mapped to the controller. i use this for on-the-spot inspirational sounds, and for shifting soundscapes. often this will be U-he's superb Zebra2, because of its lush waveform-morphing goodness and gorgeous filters.
- a few distinctive lead synths... a squelchy sawtooth for wibbly sounds, a nice clean smooth filtered lead with lots of portamento, and a clangy FM beast for odd noises. possibly a moog emulation for clean mono leads, z3ta+ or FilterscapeVA for FM, and Vanguard for trancier stuff.
- a drumkit or two for bashing out snares and hats... usually Ableton's Impulse.
- a few 'ethnic' instruments, like the Chinee Kong Erhu or a weird marimba emulator.
- some 'atmospheric' instruments - either big pad sounds or weird ambience patches.
- a classic piano just for kicks and cheesy 12-bar blues runs
each of these will be mapped to similar pots and sliders on the midi controller, so i know where filter cutoff / res will be, osc pitch will be etc... their output is sent to a bus for group EQ and compression, to keep dynamics under control. that bus has sends also mapped to the Edirol for delays, reverbs and autofilters.
on the audio side, i set up between 10-16 channels for the electric violin. typically these will include:
- one 'big tail' with a long, highly diffuse reverb for washy waves of sound.
- a distorted, filtered, gated channel for squelchy stuff
- a rhythm-gate set to 1/16th notes with a ping-pong delay
- a sweeping high-pass autofilter
- a phaser / chorus / flanger for funny sounds
- an instance of dblue's Glitch or magnus's Fire for mangling
as with the midi, each channel goes to a shared bus for group EQ / compression. i tend to experiment with combinations of pedal settings / channel selections beforehand to try and avoid any huge level spikes, and often run quite a tight compressor to keep things under control.
i also map 'macro' controls to the midi controller and laptop keys. these include global FX (typically a sweepable autofilter, flanger with rate control, etc.) and return levels.
i'm always looking to do things as live as possible... but because there's only one of me, and i feel my strenghts are in improv, it can be tricky. between selecting and playing synths and samplers, selecting pedal / channel settings and playing the violin, and doing global FX etc. i find i'm working hard enough.
a few downsides of my particular approach at the moment:
- i'm quite inflexible with tempo and setlist issues. it would be nice to be more flexible and responsive.
- because i often play on very loud rigs i can get harsh feedback squeals from my violin.
- since i merely improvise over my pre-recorded material, my live sets are better than my released music |
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Mesq
Reality Pixie
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
671
Posted : May 2, 2008 11:15
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Group channels is a great idea and something I should do eventually... |
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geekhorde
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
207
Posted : May 4, 2008 00:01
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Any advice for how to optimize a computer for live play? |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : May 4, 2008 02:07
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just like all regular windows optimize for audio work
less graphic acceleration
less windows stupid features and sounds hehe
no desktop background
clean your start up to minimum , no need for damm messengers
oh , and if you can , have cooling system. laptops tend to hit.
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Mesq
Reality Pixie
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
671
Posted : May 4, 2008 04:23
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^^^ http://www.musicxp.net/dnn/
Oh and remember to switch off your Antivirus software before you play Worst thing is for a major system scan to switch on in the middle of your live set. |
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OpenSourceCode
Datavore
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
660
Posted : May 4, 2008 06:29
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also, switch off your screen saver!
I had my awesome electricsheep screensaver start up in the middle of a set once....oh god....the sound stopped for a good ten seconds........
these days, I've been making a 24-bit wav file of the whole set, and playing that back while adding live electronic percussion and fx over the top. seems that's enough for me to be busy during a whole set, and still keep the music at top quality for all the kids.
but that's just for electronic music. I still do a full dub session with a mixing board for dub sets. |
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Aluminol
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
27
Posted : May 4, 2008 08:44
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what bit depth do most of you use in ableton live.
24 or 32? |
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Aluminol
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
27
Posted : May 5, 2008 08:37
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Quote:
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On 2008-05-04 08:44, Aluminol wrote:
what bit depth do most of you use in ableton live. 24 or 32?
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let's put this better.
"when exporting all wav files and loops and samples and trax sequences etc into ableton. What bit depth are those files in - 24 or 32?"
Mesq nice in depth review pics etc. was good to see pics on basically how i have set things up aswell. myself use ableton live 7 with novation 25sl compact but @ the moment use several audio mixdown sequences (kick/bassline/percussions1&2/synths 1&2/efx 1&2) of the tracks with return efx etc and audio loops and midi vsts but not as in depth as you have due to badly needing a new laptop upgrade.. |
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : May 5, 2008 19:04
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I'm using a p4 2.8 ghz laptop with 2 gigs of ram and ableton 7.
I have an o2 midi controller and now an echo indigo card (the old one).
My live sets currently consist of 8 audio channels, 3 midi channels and 4 group channels.
1 channel for kick and bass. They are loaded into a sampler and the bass notes has already been compressed and eqed individually, and is fed into a group channel for overall compression with the kick.
I have several kick fills set up with follow actions and a few specific sequences including all the fills are set to the midi keyboard.
I have one midi knob set up to control the volume of the channel for mixing purposes and a eq 3 for the lowcut when mixing.
2 channels for drums. 1 of the channels has about 20 loops that are either from tracks or are just flat out loops from sample cds or whatnot. The other channel is the impulse set up with a simple kit I made for just the basics of the drum patterns. Some clips are just simple individual patterns, some are full grooves of 32 bars. Both channels routed to a group channel for compression and whatnot. The drumloop channel has been lowcut.
3 synth channels broken up into categories of heavy lead, ask/answer, and weird. All channels contain synthlines either from tracks or ones that I've made especially for use in the live set. All usually have been eqed and compressed ahead of time but also sent out to a group channel for further compression.
1 channel for samples and mashups... This is where I have some strange movie samples and some other music that I like to mash up with the other parts. I think that it can sometimes add a bit of fun that people might remember. Sometimes it's acapellas from other music, sometimes it some music that I've enjoyed from the past like James Brown - I'm Black and I'm proud. (always a good one to drop over a crazy section) I also currently have a couple of chunks from old Alan Parson's Project songs that I've taken just a small loop from and use too. I don't do this all the time, but sometimes it's fun to drop on the unsuspecting. I have a audio effect rack set up with some fx and set to have a midi knob switch through the fx on the rack (who needs dblue glitch when you can do that?) The channel has a low cut on it and some compression and is fed to the same channel as the synthlines.
1 channel for whooshes... mainly pad like fxs stuff low cut and fed to the synth group channel and also fed out to a delay send. Since the weird audio channel takes care of the atmospheric like pads and sounds, this usually just has 16 bar loops of swells and reverses.
2 channels for full tracks. I have full songs loaded into these two channels to mix in and out of full songs. each channel has a low cut I turn on and off for mixing purposes and has midi knobs set to control the volume of each channel.
1 vst synth channel (synth 1) with a couple of macros set so I can control multiple parameters with just one knob. There are several midi clips I have set up for sequences and even follow actions set for a few of those clips. My synth playing timing really really sucks, so when I do play the synth by hand it's mainly for long fx like sweeps or sounds....
4 group channels with compression(kick bass, drums, synths, and full mix for all the components to make sure they are similar volume as the fully mastered tracks I play in the set too. ) The full mix group has a limiter on it too....
The master has a few fx on it like supatrigga and dr device, but also has a the blue tubes brickwall limiter on it as well to keep everything from clipping.
Usually in a live set I'll end up starting off by just kinda jamming out for like 5 -10 minutes with some of the loops and sequences, then start mixing in the full tracks. From that point I start adding a few things here and there over the tracks that are playing and during a lull I'll try to make a new patch on the synth 1, and assist the crowd with energy from behind the decks. If I get the wild hair or feel that I need to build the set a bit slower than what the full tracks will do, I'll jam for a little bit longer sometimes in between a couple of tracks.. But usually with all that combined, I end up doing quite a bit of stuff and since it's not presequenced, I can pick which tracks I want to play and when.
If it wasn't for this forum and another producer friend of mine in SF, I wouldn't have even thought to do this type of stuff live. I used to be a push play live, but with a little knowledge, a kick in the pants, and a slight upgrade in my computer, I'm doing a lot more now than I did before.
There's still a few more things I need to make things work even better... A secondary controller like an Evolution UC 33... that would serve as the mixing console and for send fx routing.
Automation clips that could be merged with existing midi or audio clips would be really nice...
Also I'm wondering if you can set up multiple midi channels to control knobs... so I could control more fx parameters and whatnot.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : May 6, 2008 01:41
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i make best live show
play from laptop!@@
its new technology!!
with best program winamp - so much better sound then media player sure if you dont hear this you are death!
then i make with my hands in the air like the kick is coming from my finger !! and the bassline from my ass
i tell you no better live then this never also airguitar important and airdrums or if not the people not be dancing!!
also i have video player show me what move to make next for look like its the music i make from my finger 
also i have 2 naked chix with me nothing is better from psy bitches on stage evry body likes this so much
and sometime this asshole comes and ask where is the cable for the synth and then i piss off casue i dont like saying my act is not live he just understand wrong the show!
we are all alive dancers!
for bookings
danceshow@eskimo.dali
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Mesq
Reality Pixie
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
671
Posted : May 6, 2008 04:38
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^^ I do that when I pretend to be sattel battle at parties here.
Yeah man i've been playing your set. |
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