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The Mother of all Lets Talk Philosophy Threads

shamantrixx


Started Topics :  7
Posts :  549
Posted : Apr 18, 2008 13:58
Quote:

On 2008-04-18 03:11, psyaudionamics wrote:
who's there to look at the leader's dirt?


well my friend, this is one of the most ancient philosophical questions (asked by Socrates in Plato's "Republic")
"quis custodiet ipsos custodes" what would translate as "Who guards the guards" or "who's taking care of the care takers daughter while the care taker is busy taking care"

This question clearly points to the absurdity of the concept of politics and state. If we give power to our defenders than who is left to defend us from our defenders? Who polices the police. This system inevitably leads to corruption and so far Plato described it perfectly. It goes through 4 cycles:

Chaos - being a best form of control where nobody actually needs to be under any form of control by virtue of being aware of one's place in the universe and one's dependence on every other part of universe. By removing this knowledge out of the public arena and dumbing down population we move to...

Theism - being a second best form of control where theism is used as a foundation for rule but gets quickly corrupted since theistic knowledge is not for everyone and soon it's passed down within a single family which leads us to...

Aristocracy - being utterly corrupt form of government based entirely on brute force, and therefore will last even shorter than theism because it will cause a massive revolt. And finally...

Democracy - form of deception (further dumbing down and removing ever more knowledge out from the public arena) that will replace aristocracy while keeping aristocrats in power behind a false system of vote where people will choose between two options (left and right, republican and democrats, socialism and capitalism) while both options are provided and controlled by the aristocracy. This one will be the shortest of them all and after that we'll come full circle and start again from chaos.

So far Plato made no mistake... we indeed live in the "end times" and within our lifetime will found out weather Plato was right about moving from democracy to chaos or not. The way I see it the odds are in his favor. Since the system is always based on controlling the knowledge internet is a precursor for restoring the chaos. McLuhan saw that clearly even 50 years before internet. As he described it... it was inevitable           "It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"

Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity
Kitnam
Mantik

Started Topics :  110
Posts :  1151
Posted : Apr 18, 2008 14:49
my philosophy?
trance is a concept, not a style.

cheers.

-aeon-
Aeon
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  546
Posted : Apr 18, 2008 15:25
Quote:

On 2008-04-17 07:12, Fragletrollet wrote:
It is impossible to see the whole truth through language....



and therein lies the essence of deconstructionist theory

the daleks
The Daleks

Started Topics :  34
Posts :  584
Posted : Apr 18, 2008 15:52
Quote:

On 2008-04-18 03:11, psyaudionamics wrote:
who's there to look at the leader's dirt?



>psyaudio
well this is the reason for the checks and balances system of modern democracies so that one branch of the government cannot assume total control. Agreed Bush went ahead and tested the boundaries, but when Congress went mostly democrat it signaled the end of his free reign. when the next president gets elected, hopefully they will be able to undo some of the damage that was done. yeah democracy is a little dumbed down, but politicians are still held accountable

>shamantrixx
me personally, I'm an anarchist. if everyone were responsible and well-minded we would not need governments. unfortunately that is not the case yet

>kitmam
word! a way of thinking perhaps?

..this thread is starting to rock!           Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!

The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys
Pavel
Troll

Started Topics :  313
Posts :  8649
Posted : Apr 18, 2008 17:55
This is more offtopic than Britney Spears in La Scala           Everyone in the world is doing something without me
bukboy
Hyperboreans

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  803
Posted : Apr 18, 2008 18:16
Oooh prophecies. is nostradamus also coming in?
shamantrixx


Started Topics :  7
Posts :  549
Posted : Apr 18, 2008 20:16
Quote:

On 2008-04-18 18:16, bukboy wrote:
Oooh prophecies. is nostradamus also coming in?



Do you know what intelligence is? By the definition it is ability to adapt to new situations and ability to foresee the outcome of that situation by virtue of careful observation and reasoning based on past experience. Prophecy is only the logical outcome that you fail to observe ether by virtue of not being interested enough, ether by plain ignorance or by the general lack of intelligence.

I wonder... where do you fit in? I would put my money on ignorance but you show some serious lack of intelligence also and I'm quite puzzled by your spectacular and almost paradoxical appearance.

Given the fact that you feel comfortable talking bullshit about topics you know nothing about and claim that philosophers are prophets without actually reading any of them is ignorant beyond comprehension. It's funny how you think that you know best while you fail to understand philosophy from 3000 years ago. Oops... pardon me... not that you don't understand it... you don't know that it exists. You claim to have a reasoning method of thinking but at the same time you don't have any philosophical knowledge. Since philosophy is a foundation of reasoning it's no wonder that you fail to respond in any other way beside calling philosophy to be a prophecy. Are you like stuck in development from the age of 10 or what?

Let's face it... you're not able to distinguish shit from shinola. The biggest philosophical question you've ever even tried to address is weather your shit smells better than others people shit only to you or maybe we'll all like your shit more than our own

ps: Nostradamus sends his greetings!           "It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"

Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity
Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  90
Posts :  2268
Posted : Apr 18, 2008 21:46
The Daleks: I disagree with you that personal evolution has anything to do with the way the world looks. There are monkeys in Jamaica that drink alcohol - they have the exact same percentages of non-drinkers, light drinkers and alcoholics as in human society. If anything, the quest for personal salvation is guiding the energies of one to himself, making changes in society someone else's problem. Example: if in the US, the slaves would have been busy practicing meditation and achieving unity with the outside world, they'd be happier about their lot in life, but they'd still be slaves, and so would their children. Same with any rights movement - it is led by people who focus their energies on the rights of others. Even Ghandi, let alone Martin Luther King or Malcolm X, were not spending time on reaching a higher level of existence, but rather on uniting people and creating change in the world (a far cry from personal acceptance and enlightenment), while people like Leary and McKenna achieved nothing in relation with the greats - they are minor philosophers at best. The modern version of Dunce (considered a genius in his lifetime, 100 years later his name became a different word for 'idiot').

Bukboy: Someone who calls the majority in a society (ANY society) "ignorant peasants" has no right to talk about achieving a united world - other than as an example of how to taint an entire ideology with arrogance. The involvement of politics in this debate also weakens every point said.

Psyaudionamics: "I love politic's as long as there is mutual respect of each and one of us" to start off and to continue with "now wouldn;t that be good enuff to have this dick and the rest of his side kicks interogated and a special report and investigation taken"... It's like saying "I'm against violence but let's slice this guy's head off". And rule of a small circle of people will cause abuse of the power - as a reminder, this exact thing was tried in the USSR (revolution by an intellectual and well meaning elite, looking for creating a utopian society), and we all know how well that ended up working.

Shamantrixx: I believe Plato to be dated in this debate. I'd tend to go with Marx and his theory of synthesis, which has proved itself very well, as democracy has adapted self-preservation from dictatorship, social rights from socialism, checks and balances from capitalism, and elements from philosophies that go thousands of years back (in the US for instance, a lot of the democracy was structured according to native american philosophy/governing). In a way, democracy in it's original incarnation - the one which Plato refered to, has not existed since his lifetime, and even then, that democracy was one that only a minority could vote in. He's the moral guide of the western world, but there is no way he could have guessed the evolution of the media (and even comedy/satire) as additional balances and as the cultural center of society, and the fact that people's lifestyle is so comfortable that most don't even bother thinking about things like alternative ways to living.

BTW: philosophers are prophets in a way. Perhaps more so than most would like to admit. Nietzche even used prophecy as a metaphor for evolution, and in many ways proved himself very close to the heart of the true morality in society as events unfolded in the past 115 years or so. I won't even start with Descartes and Kant - in many ways they created the necessity for their own ideologies, in ways similar to prophecies playing a vital role in their own fulfillment.


... now who is gonna lock/delete this?
Trip-
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  101
Posts :  3239
Posted : Apr 18, 2008 22:13
i'll lock... although had to delete due to guidelines.

this is clearly not the right place.           Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA
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