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The Mother of Acoustic Treatment
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gutter
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Posted : Mar 27, 2008 16:35:06
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Is one of the most important things your room must have.
Whenever you mix your track in an environment thats not treated acoustically,
you listen what YOUR ROOM provides to listen , with reflexes that make odd reverberations thats not what a good mix need.
And what do all these reflections??
Cancellations of frequencies.
Think of a sine wave going out of your speakers and travel into the room , hit the wall on the back of the mix position and turns back .
When it returns the curves are not in the same position. In some spots it might be like a plus (+) from the wave of the speakers to the wall ,, with a minus (-)from the wall back to the room ,, and when combined gives NULL = cancellation
But cancellations are not on all frequencies, but specific freq on specific spots gives null..
To find out the exact cancellations of the right frequencies , you have to make measurements with a bounce of sine waves of different freq. , in ex. 60Hz, 150Hz, 220Hz (too professional for me).
but the most usual provides a simple white noise (cause white noise has all the frequencies and is a straight line on your analyzer)
going out of your monitors , open a spectrum analyzer
, take a omnidirectional microphone and move round the room and see
which frequencies & where , fall of the line of the white noise.. there are the cancellations .. bingo 
The most important thing in our music (or one of the most) is the perfect combination of kick & bass, a perfect low frequencies balance , which is almost impossible to succeed without acoustic treatment.
And i say that because everyone has cancellations in lof frequencies, usually most of the are around the 100Hz..
So the answer is : You cant mix what you cant hear . End.
There are two types of acoustic treatment
One is ABSORPTION & the other is DIFFUSION .
What most of our rooms need , is absorption , and i say "our"
cause i make music in my bedroom also ,of course is a small room , about 12-13 square meters , SO this kind of rooms have lots of problems in the low frequencies due to small distances of the walls ,
so A LOT OF BASSTRAPS is what most of us need ..
A big factor you must consider is what kind of material is your room made of.
Walls , ceiling and floor
Tile on floor is the WORST f**ing thing a room can have (mine  ).Of course wood is one of the best.
A solution to this problem is a big FAT carpet. Fatness is a big factor of absorption (material is the first)
, thats why fat carpet is needed .
Wooden floors also need treatment (after all wood reflects sound too) but a thinner carpet might do the job cause wood has an absorption.
So , how im i going to fix my room ??
One way is the easy one . Go on a shop and buy acoustic panels and corner basstraps and .. well done .. i personally need for my room which is small, so many panels that for a good treatment i would need 1000-1500 euro !!
in stuff.. dont think so (have not that money)
So there are two friends . One is fiberglass and the other is stonewool or rockwool .
Professionals prefer fiberglass which is thinner and not too messy for building them (a little more expensive but negligible)
but rockwool is the most famous (im building mine with rockwool)
So i will discuss about rockwool
All panels are 120cm X 60cm.
The first thing is that there are different types of DENSITY in rockwool ..
This is counted as kg/m3 = kilos per cubic meter
Different density for different kind of absorption is needed..
Meaning that for low freq.= BASS , high density rockwool is needed
High density is 70kg to 150 kg per cubic meter which is the best for low freq. absorption
Low density is from 40 to 60 kg. This is used for ?? .. middle and high freq. absorption
then there is the width of the material.
Usually the rockwool panels are from 3 to 8 cm width . Most common are the 5cm which is good i think.
So we have low and high density rockwool
Its not nuclear physics . You go to a place that sells structurally stuff and choose the density & the width you like/need out of tons of material thats usually over there.
Next is the placement.
Corners are where A LOT of low freq gather.
Corners always need to be treated with absorption.
And always they (traps) have to be width enough to absorb and keep those huge freq-eZ.
So for corner traps a width of at least 10 cm is needed.
What i have done is take the panel of
120 X 60 cm and cut it to 8 - 30 X 30 cm squares. Then cut the squares in half (from corner to corner) and make them triangles.
So now you have 16 triangles thats one above the other are 80 cm high ready to fit in the corner.
And the width will be about 15 cm which is great for low freq.
Of course you cant just place them downright.
The rockwool has to be covered with some kind of fabric.
Best fabric is the one that you can "blow" through it and feel the air passes (like a very condensate net)
I know that by reading this not all people will understand , so i will try to post some pictures of the making of traps to make it more clear..
The wall panels now are much more easier to made.
All you have to do is make a FRAME.
I forgot to say that wood is needed also, sorry...
So we take four pieces of wood , and make them the same as the original rockwool panel (for now) , mean 120cm X 60cm ,, width of 5cm
& density of 50kg ..
What next?? We just have to place the rockwool panels into the frame and cover it with the blow-trough fabric (can use one of those big staplers for the fabric to stick on the wood)
It is really very easy , but needs work ,believe me, & a space to work -
& NOT inside the house..
Different width is needed to absorb the right frequencies
Ok , for the low 10cm are good , but for the mid and highs less width is needed , thats why you need to make some panels 5cm thick
Rockwool with high density like 70kg and above will REFLECT those frequencies back to the room and NOT absorb them. This works for the lows..
Again you can make panels of 10cm width , which will have 2 RW panels inside with density of 50kg. These will absorb both low , mid & high freq, cause they will not be to condensate like the 100kg to reflect highs,
neither too thin ,so they will absorb low freq also 
Next thing is - what-goes-where (?) ..
The most important place in your mixing room is whats in front of you (this is said by pros) , but of course behind is important too
There are some reflection zones called First Reflections ..
The usual are behind your speakers , on the wall in front of you & at the sides (left and right) at the same hight of the speakers
Think of, that your monitors are placed in a triangle with the mixing position.
So the left monitor will reflect on the right side of your mixing position and the right one on the left side. These are first refl. and this is where we need to place traps.
Dead rooms , are the rooms that have no reflections , which can be really annoying , but not bad for your mixes.
So the back wall need treatment too, the side walls need treatment too , the ceiling ABOVE your mixing position needs acoustic treatment
It is said (again by professionals) that you can take a mirror and move inside the room
Wherever you can see the monitors through the mirror , acoustic treatment is needed (i know too many - thats what i need too  ).
But think that i have made half of my bedroom and more and have paid about 200euros,,will need bout 100 more , and the job is done much cheaper than 1500 euro..
If youre a little craftsman , you will find it interesting & pleasure building your own
acoustic treatment
i ll try to put some photos from tomorrow
big boom psychoZ 
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 27, 2008 18:57
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Great Thread man!!
thx alot..very useful information and very easy to undertsand as well..good work!!
look forward to see some pics..even by others..
should be sticky!! btw..
good luck!
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 27, 2008 20:26
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I will build them as well like you did..and even post some pictures next month...
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Seamoon
Seamoon
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Posted : Mar 27, 2008 22:37
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ansolas
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 28, 2008 07:23
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
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Posted : Mar 28, 2008 11:58
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I wonder if its a good idea to get a bedmatress made out of rockwool =D
Taken from wiki
"In contrast, the more commonly used vitreous fibre wools including insulation glass wool, rock (stone) wool and slag wool are considered not classifiable as to carcinogenicity to humans (Group 3).
The EU risk and safety phrases associated with this material in general are:
* R38 – Irritating to the skin
* R39 – Danger of very serious irreversible effects
* R40 – Possible risk of irreversible effects
* S36/37 – Wear suitable protective clothing and gloves."
Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/ |
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gutter
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Posted : Mar 28, 2008 12:00
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Quote:
| personally I would NEVER sleep in the same room with Rockwool, doesnt matter if its sealed or not. |
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yeah, i had the same precautions (am allergic also), but from what i have read , rockwool doesnt really hurt health & specific the lungs
found some prove of research bout this
http://www.ais-group.com.au/homeinsulation/health.htm
but still its from a insulation comp.(someone may say theyre not to trustful)
but still you can buy some basotects & make some panels to save money (basotect corner trap costs 250 euro -- which is half of a room covered with rockwool ! and wall absorbers- the small pyramid pieces cost about 200euro & the hole packet is 100cm X 50cm, think how many youll need and how much will it cost!! )-- i really wish they were cheaper .. anyway
its all about money..
this weekend ill make some more (if its not raining ..hope ) ,, and take some photos of the process.. b well
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 28, 2008 15:00
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And what about letting the panels in its actual cover?should be save right?and if i cover the corner traps after processing with some other foil?
and what i`m wondering about..is an 80cm high basstrap in the corner enough or do i have to stack them to build them up from bottom to top of the room?
thx
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gutter
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Posted : Mar 28, 2008 15:55
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80cm was an example,, of course you can fill the hole corner ,, after all the more basstraps u can have , the better it is
i have made them for the hole corner , my rooms height is 2,40 and have made two furnitures which are 1,20 each so I need about 44 triangles from the rockwool ,,thats why I bought 2 packets of high dens. which are 10 panels - i need bout 2,5 panel for each corner ,, so with 10 panels im covered,, i have them all.
and about actual panel , do u mean the plastic cover or the fabric ??
you can also make corner triangle bass traps
with wood ,
i have used two triangle pieces of wood (hardboard) one for the top & one for the bottom of each of the 120cm traps & screw up on each of the three corners aluminum rails
to hold them ,,
then i filled with the rockwool triangles & then covered the hole trap with fabric and stick it with a stapler on the woods to be tight.
& they are really nice
& the best is that i see difference to what i hear
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 28, 2008 16:05
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yer..i thought about the plastic cover..and yep,i would make specific parts of the corner trap with wood as well,to fix and stabilize the whole thing..good idea with the aluminium rails 
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gutter
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Posted : Mar 28, 2008 16:28
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Suloo
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Posted : Mar 28, 2008 16:42
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well..did you build yours up like he says..so is the information you offered from that site?cause its quite a lot stuff,and you summerized it nicely..so might it be ok to leave them in the plastic?
couldn`t find the answer yet..thx
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gutter
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Posted : Mar 28, 2008 17:32
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the packet has usually 5 or more panels , so you still have to take off the plastic cover , which means that you have to use another cover
mr. Ethan Winer says that it might be ok to cover it with thin plastic if youre going to use it for low frequencies , means for corners mostly
but it isnt good for first reflections and generally for mid. and high frequencies cause these kind of material (even thin one) is going to reflect those frequencies back and not absorb them
one material i can thing of is the plastic foil we use for the kitchen, which is really thin BUT can b cleaved easily but you can wrap it a lot of times to make it thicker or more stable ,and make little holes on the front (??) to gain more absorption, but again not too tight,, cause too tight reflects (again)
& not too tight applies also for the fabric (but much much less,, especially if it is a very strainer one which doesnt matter at all)
i still didnt wrap them with plastic , as almost no one does this , or better recommend it ..
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Seamoon
Seamoon
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Posted : Mar 28, 2008 17:47
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gutter
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Posted : Mar 28, 2008 17:55
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& my explanation is really poor to what
is really happening , but its an general view
with the most basic things (but i hope it will help some people make build their own traps & improve the acoustic of their mixing rooms)
after all there isnt a huge variation of what to do , its upon your craftsman skills ,
the difference is where do you target , really , where then you need to do measurements with specific tones of sine waves etc etc to find which exact freq. falls where & decide what you have to place there etc etc ...
which means of course that you really have to study what this little grannpa says
but the acoustic problems in small rooms are huge and even the professionals recommend a lot of absorption to be used in this kind of areas..& is easy to make them ..
 Ethan Winer
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