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the ``melody`` of psy
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Becktrank
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jul 21, 2009 20:43:24
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when i started doing my track at the begining, it just sounded like an electro with a psy bass and kick. Many of my friends too. I realized that this genre is not too much about melody, it does have melodys, but what give most of the tracks the ``psy`` feel is the different sounds that sequenced with each other at the right timing create a grove or a rythm, hope you guys know what i m talkin about, and its not gold rays! Do you guys follow any process or any guideline when starting to right this rythm. Lately everything i try or sound too electro (when is just a bunch of melody combined with each other) and when i try create this kind of feeling ``rythm`` it just sounds too awful or no good at all.
I hope you guys get what im talking about, i think what difference psy from other genres is these sounds that when sequenced at the right time with each other create this track identity, i mean, its ABSTRACT theres no music theory on those sequences at all thats way i think many people that do psy dont know too much about mt (not everybody of course)
my sounds dont fit and i cant achieve the ``abstract`` i will keep tryng..anyway, do you have any guideline that you follow when starting create this? or just sample few weird sounds and try to sequence them by luck like me?
  ``We shall not cease from exploration - And the end of all our exploring - Will be to arrive where we started - And know the place for the first time.``
bahia |
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shellbound
IsraTrance Junior Member
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601
Posted : Jul 21, 2009 21:14
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first of all, what kind of psy are you talking about? if you post some examples, it'd be easier to give you pointers.
if you are talking about melodic morning fullon, i think it's pretty difficult to do something truly melodic, good, and interesting, without entering the cheese land. i think it's because of the 4x4 and faster tempos. it just kind of forces most people to do certain things, so they end up creating kiddie cliche-sounding rave-y crap. to hear some recent examples of melodic fast stuff done right, check out terrafractyl. but that's obviously a skilled musician and you can't do what he does simply by trial-and-error randomly moving notes around on the sequencer and hoping for something interesting to come up.
so if you can't pull that off, maybe try something less complex. don't try to run before you can walk. try to make your melody simple, but divide the notes between 4-6 synths and work on the timbre and modulation. so instead of having your melody as a flurry of 16th notes that lasts for one bar, use single notes and have one complete phrase stretched over 4 bars. so there's interplay between the synths playing single notes, in a kind of call-and-response fashion. and try to maintain the interest by how you modulate those single notes. how they evolve over time and how this movement of the individual notes creates a sense of a distinctive phrase.
this is probably what you mean by "abstract" sense you are lacking. it's more about timbre of evolving sounds, rather than the notes themselves.
https://soundcloud.com/dead-end-dance
https://soundcloud.com/shellbound |
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Becktrank
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
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Posted : Jul 21, 2009 21:43
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thank you for the reply.
intereting, i think one thing i was doing wrong is that i was only using one bar, maybe if i strech it to 4 bars it will be more envolving and less repetitive. Anyway i m at the work know, but there is plenty of examples, i think most of psy tunes have this, as i said at least in my opnion what i m talkin about is one of the things that give the genre it identity (still looking for the other things)
anyway there is some psy tracks that has really envolving melodys that looks it came out from classical tunes, but that is not what i m talking about.
And i think you got my point, cause for me its note about the notes, cause most of the times they dont have any correlation (theorically speaking), or are just the same notes. Is more about the timbre of these notes, and the time that these sounds are triggered, that deliver to us(to me) a crazy rythm feel.
I think you said I was trying to explain with ``call and response`` thats the thing!!
anyway i think i expressed myself wrong when i called this melody.
``We shall not cease from exploration - And the end of all our exploring - Will be to arrive where we started - And know the place for the first time.``
bahia |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
104
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Posted : Jul 21, 2009 23:31
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I guess I know what u are talking about. It's something like : sequencing high tech one shot sounds. Is it right??? Like, no real melody, just lots of sounds and fx's bringing a nice flow to the track. That's what I like to do... 
I will try to make an example: first I will explain the type of sounds I will use here.
1)A nice minor chord stab(can be easily found on any Vengenance CD, or u can do it with any vst).
2)The overused "acid fart" from psy(can be found on any PSytrance Sample cd).
3)A cool short hit fx, like a air noize(like a shhh), not longer than 1 beat.
Let's say u have a kick/bass/drums for 2 bars(8 kicks).
Sequence this way:
-The minor stab at BOTH FIRST OFFBEAT of each bar. (using a 1/8 quantize, it's the second place, after the beat). So u have 1 stab per bar.
-The acid fart at the SECOND OFFBEAT of FIRST BAR.
-The Air Fx at SECOND OFFBEAT of SECOND BAR.
This way u can get a question and answer sounds.
Hope it works for u!
LOADING... |
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Gaiana
Started Topics :
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59
Posted : Jul 21, 2009 23:47
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I think what you mean is the groove of a track 
Like when several different sounds, wether its a lead or some percussion or sample, come together to combine and create a single story that runs throughout the sounds.. almost like an estafette race where one sound is passing on the torch to the next one, all connected together with an invisible thread.
Or like several sounds having a conversation together, with questions and answers and conclusions, like in classical music.
For me, trance is not about the sounds, fat crunchy leads and trippy psychedelic sound effects, its about the greater perspective offered through this groove.
The spaces in between the connected sounds hint at sacred geometries, divine intelligence, an awareness that knows itself, the natural harmonic structures that cause logic to make sense for us..
Dancing is a surrender to the groove, playing with the switch between actively moving on total free will and passively following the predetermined flow of the music.
You create the moment and the movement, just as the groove creates you in and through that moment and movement.
And of course, the groove is just so wonderful for shaking your ass! XD
www.myspace.com/gaiana_25 |
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Milosh
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
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204
Posted : Jul 22, 2009 00:25
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realy nice info sms thanx  also i would recommend some triplets for this.
Never let computers to win a game! :)
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Becktrank
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
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537
Posted : Jul 22, 2009 00:33
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really thanks dudes for read and answer the topic.
I thing you got my point. ''Grove'' ''Flow" Thats what i m searching for. I think that we are talkin about here are the main carachteristic of psy and what made us like these genre so much, and i want to lear how to do this.
I want to know of you if you if you have any method to build this, make the sounds conversate together creating a unique flow to the track.
What i m trying is. first i get a synth and come up with a normal melody, then when i have the melody, I pick the notes and give different synths one of this notes...but not had success yet. I m realy interested about it and would love to see someone doin this in a vid, not to copy but just to get more perspective of the process.
''Like when several different sounds, wether its a lead or some percussion or sample, come together to combine and create a single story that runs throughout the sounds.. almost like an estafette race where one sound is passing on the torch to the next one, all connected together with an invisible thread.''
that`s it gaiana
I really want more info about this, even if everyone has their own way of makin this, i just want to see the process with other perspectives, i m not asking for rules, just perceptions ``We shall not cease from exploration - And the end of all our exploring - Will be to arrive where we started - And know the place for the first time.``
bahia |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
104
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Posted : Jul 22, 2009 00:41
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Try my method dude. U can easily find those samples, and I'm almost sure that this is what u are talking about.
Something I do often is to break my melodies into one shot,and then rearrange them. It sounds cool, but imo not what u are looking for. I guess u are looking for those specifics psy sounds and arrangement, not so much about melody.
An easy melody that gives a nice flow for tracks, is what I call "friend of the bass".... Ex: make a melodic bassline. Then take only the high notes of the melo, and make a synth line with this. Make the bassline
"straight"(no melo, only one key), and mix in the lead with higher notes of pre-bass. Some verb an delay and voila!
LOADING... |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 22, 2009 00:45
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Quote:
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On 2009-07-22 00:33, becktrank wrote:
I thing you got my point. ''Grove'' ''Flow" Thats what i m searching for. I think that we are talkin about here are the main carachteristic of psy and what made us like these genre so much, and i want to lear how to do this.
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Just to give my humble opinion. Maybe nowadays this "high tech conversation" is a carachteristic for psy. But it's not what brought me to psy, and it was not so commmon when I start to listen.
My bottom line: this fullonish caracteristic is great, but psy is not only this!
LOADING... |
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Becktrank
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jul 22, 2009 00:54
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i will try man, just need to get home.
Well i think you got what i am talking about, but doesnt need necessarily to be ``high-tech``, can be a tribal conversation or anything that comes in your mind, can be any sound possible in the world. Anyway i still think that this is the main carachterist, what diferrenciate this genre from the others, otherwise psy would sounds like a house or electro just with a high bpm, even if you listen to the old 90`s tunes you will find this.
and thanks, sure i will try this method, later i say how it will came up.
``We shall not cease from exploration - And the end of all our exploring - Will be to arrive where we started - And know the place for the first time.``
bahia |
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Wizack Twizack
Wizack Twizack
Started Topics :
239
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3486
Posted : Jul 22, 2009 01:07
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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3709
Posted : Jul 22, 2009 01:22
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septa - Terrafractyl was awsome! very nice stuff  thanks for recommending 
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Becktrank
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
537
Posted : Jul 22, 2009 07:19
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is normal to be frustated when you starting producing?
``We shall not cease from exploration - And the end of all our exploring - Will be to arrive where we started - And know the place for the first time.``
bahia |
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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112
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Posted : Jul 22, 2009 07:50
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Quote:
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On 2009-07-22 07:19, becktrank wrote:
is normal to be frustated when you starting producing?
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Yes bro, is normal...
Gold rule is: Never give up.
For your sequencing needs just place one shots and riffs and arrange them q&a style, just feel them, use reverse samples and other nice hits and try to feel where should they be placed. And of course use as much as vengeance acid shots as you can to sound so israeleet. |
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dharmatronic
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
130
Posted : Jul 22, 2009 10:36
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IMHO it’s all about will power, practice and time (btw… much much time). It’s like seeing an aircraft control panel for the first time and then it starts getting less complicate and reasonable until you really feel to be on control of all variables. Maybe we can apply this analogy, can’t we?
What I have been doing is selecting my favorite tracks and trying to recreate it in my way to produce, so I check carefully how the percussion, melody, loops and rhythm were built up and every compass… there’s no big deal at all. Probably, the hardest for me sometimes is understand all the techniques utilized by them.
@SMS, thanks for defining it. It really helps me out.
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