Fometrius
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
2082
Posted : Nov 3, 2010 21:00
Quote:
On 2010-11-02 16:41, mk47 wrote:
The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.
From wikipedia
"The Force is a binding, metaphysical and ubiquitous power in the fictional universe of the Star Wars galaxy created by George Lucas. Mentioned in the first film in the series, it is integral to all subsequent incarnations of Star Wars, including the expanded universe of comic books, novels, and video games. Within the franchise, it is the object of the Jedi and Sith monastic orders."
I like that concept.
mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
Posts :
4444
Posted : Nov 3, 2010 21:21
and heres the yang of it :
mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
Posts :
4444
Posted : Nov 3, 2010 21:25
and wtf , man , Fometrius ... if you had to google that , then u need to be struck down by a light saber , go do a star wars marathon .. i did last week , after full 8 year gap , still killer
Fometrius
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
2082
Posted : Nov 3, 2010 21:30
When talking about this ,which is the issue about everything that is included in the word "god" we first have to understand that the word god is just a word,it is pointing towards the associations one has with the word.
So we all associate the word god with different things.Although it usually has some common themes.For one person god means the sun,for another one it means jesus and the bible,for another it means "Kalazala" the egyptian hawk god , and for the fourth one it means everything,you get the point.
Many may not agree on the subjective view of god which they are taught to look through,i totally understand how people dont like much of the ideas that some people mix with religion.Because that is just ideas and extensions of other peoples belief systems.We all have to understand that ,that many religious ideas and concepts dont have anything to do with what the word god truly points at.Which is the source from where everything comes and that which holds everything togheter.The thing that is the reason why there is something,and not just a total nothing.
Whatever one thinks and believes one has to face the fact that there is something,there is not a complete emptiness,there is something.And what does that something come from,why is there something at all.The reason or underlying core to that is what many refers to when they use the word god.
It is a mysterium beyond what can be expressed,the biggest and most fascinating enigma one ever can stumble upon ,why is there something and not a complete nothingness,and what is that thing.What is it,and how does it work,what does it come from.
If one want to call it god,sure,one can also call it whatever word else.It does not matter,it is just a word which points towards something ,and it points different since we all have different mindsets and associations with it.
So , as said before,many may battle with the associations one has with god,but one should understand and accept them for what they are,which is,cultural,timebound, and subjective concepts and ideas.And in religion it is extensions of other peoples ideas and thoughts.
This does not really have anything to do with what the word god truly points at,which is the reason to why we are sitting here in this thread typing these things,the reason to all things.The spark that created the fire.The bird from were the feathers come.The thing that is behind everything,from which everything comes.The "thing" that is the reason to why i am and that everything else exist.That something that makes something to be anything at all.
Science tries to explain and understand it,but instead it maybe uses a formula or numbers,etc.What spirituality and science is doing is that they are trying to understand,discover and explore the underlying layers of life.And to understand what life is ,were it comes from etc.
Look at CERN,which is looking after the "god particle".We all dig after the same treasure,the difference is that we use different shovels and different words.
Fometrius
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
2082
Posted : Nov 3, 2010 21:51
Quote:
On 2010-11-03 21:25, mk47 wrote:
and wtf , man , Fometrius ... if you had to google that , then u need to be struck down by a light saber , go do a star wars marathon .. i did last week , after full 8 year gap , still killer
Yeah,i have planned to watch some movies soon,have not even watched all.Will be perfect for some dark winter days.
By the way,remember to charge your light saber from time to time,otherwise it may go out of battery.And also to contemplate to what Yoda says.
May the Force be with you
Login
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
65
Posts :
1707
Posted : Nov 3, 2010 22:00
"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." wittgeinstein
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures."
Fometrius
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
2082
Posted : Nov 3, 2010 22:16
Silence is as deep as eternity , speech, shallow as time.
day_tripper
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
1120
Posted : Nov 4, 2010 06:32
'when in doubt, stay silent and appear to be dumb rather than opening your mouth and confirming it' -noideawho
"It's not the fall that kills you; it's the sudden stop at the end." - Douglas Adams
Pauldo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
155
Posted : Nov 9, 2010 11:21
Stalin doesn't even come close to religion which is still the number one serial killer of all time!
Wanka, wanka, wanka!
Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Nov 9, 2010 17:53
You missed the whole point, Pauldo. Atheism didn't kill anybody. Lenin, Stalin and Mao did. Likewise, Christianity didn't kill anybody. Popes and bishops did. By the same token, Islam is not killing anybody. Warlords playing dress-up as "religious authorities" are.
On top of that, why are conflating belief in God with organized religion? What about people who believe in God but don't practice any religion at all?
Whatever your belief concerning The Maker - you are still the only one responsible for your actions. Don't blame metaphysics for peoples' stupidity.
Fometrius
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
2082
Posted : Nov 9, 2010 21:20
Quote:
On 2010-11-09 17:53, Maine Coon wrote:
You missed the whole point, Pauldo. Atheism didn't kill anybody. Lenin, Stalin and Mao did. Likewise, Christianity didn't kill anybody. Popes and bishops did. By the same token, Islam is not killing anybody. Warlords playing dress-up as "religious authorities" are.
On top of that, why are conflating belief in God with organized religion? What about people who believe in God but don't practice any religion at all?
Whatever your belief concerning The Maker - you are still the only one responsible for your actions. Don't blame metaphysics for peoples' stupidity.
+1
Pauldo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
155
Posted : Nov 12, 2010 11:25
I would argue that god, religious and magical thoughts and beliefs do directly lead to the death of people and this continues to be the case in our current day.
Belief in god requires a very large suspension of basic logic and rules of proof. It's fine if one has faith but call it what it is, faith not logic and proof. If a person is willing to suspend logic to such a degree and they have been trained since childhood to do so then they are more likely to suspend logic in other areas of belief and more likely to act upon those beliefs.
A suicide bomber is making a huge cognitive misstep if they think their actions are going to bring them greater reward in some kind of after-life. Radical religious belief does not occurr for no reason. There are some fundamental flaws in religious thinking just like there is in communism. A theocracy is not a proper form of governing people and resources. It is unable to manage and address the well being of all of it's citizens without expense to others. Science is best suited to aaddress the well-being of all people and animals.
God does not have any clear associations of physical cause and effect. God(s) is a psychological and social phenomenom that came about at a time when man was far more ignorant of how his natural world actually worked as oppossed to modern man's understanding.
Can one really believe that god is the most accurate way to describe our natural world!? God is man's greatest cognitive misstep since we thought the Earth was flat and the sun, planets, stars as well as the entire Universe revolved around us.
Don't believe in any maker except a coffee maker, big fan of personal responsibility and I blame meta-phy and people for being stoopid.
Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Nov 12, 2010 20:20
And you still didn't address my main question: what about non-religious people who just happened not to buy into materialism?
You don’t have to tell me about the ancients who were afraid of the forces of nature and invented spirits to worship. You don’t have to tell me about the shortcomings of theocracy (first, it’s pretty self-evident; and second, no form of government is perfect – whether religious or secular). You don’t have to tell me that a teenager blowing himself up in a café full of people is an idiot. I already know all those things, possibly even better than you do. I was not raised by nuns, Pauldo. I grew up as an atheist and could recite all this stuff in my sleep. All this sounds exactly like a sermon from a fiery Southern preacher, except in reverse. It’s irrelevant in our discussion: you’re talking ideology, I am talking personal faith. My belief in God does not prompt me to kiss a bishop’s hand or to blow myself up. It prompts me to be a better scientist and keep discovering mysteries of this Universe. It prompts me to respect all life. It also teaches me to not be arrogant about what I think I know – there’s always more to learn, and I may have to even scrap my whole model of the world one day and replace it with a new one. How does anything you wrote about in your last post relate to me?
Belief in God is a form of faith, I completely agree with you. Belief in God’s absence is a form of faith as well. I choose one axiom, you choose the other – there is no way to logically prove or disprove any of it, or it would’ve happened at the time of Aristotle already. Your whole post, however, was not about personal faith. It was about ideology, which crafty “authority figures” build around one’s faith. It’s about power and manipulation. True, it’s an interesting subject, but a totally different one.
Since you like talking about cognitive missteps so much, here is an example of one for you: when a person transfers his thoughts and feelings about grouchy nuns and crooked priests to the whole concept of God and cannot separate his childhood trauma from theoretical discourse.
Pauldo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
155
Posted : Nov 13, 2010 01:12
Materialism as in the materialistic nature of the universe? I don't see how anyone can come to the conclusion that there is more than the material aspect of the universe(s). Why believe that the world or any part of it is occurring in some unreacheable, unexplainable, etheral type of place?
I don't know how my post relates to you. I don't know you? I could answer more specific maybe if you defined your god? From what I understand of you...raised an atheist, now believes in a god, works as a scientist. What went wrong man? What made you move off the position of atheist to theist? You were doing just fine w/ being an atheist. I say you go back and examine where along the line you made a cognitive misstep.
How does theism make you a better scientist? I don't get it. Science and religion are not equals. Science is an evolutionary step above religion. It is a more correct way to explain and discover our natural world. It's not a mystery that we don't know everything about the Universe. One can still have wonder of the Universe without belief in god.
I'm not going to just pretend that belief/non-belief in a god are equally logical choices. God is a pretty far-fetched idea. If you claim something exists it's on you to prove it. Atheism doesn't require a person to prove any claim. It's a null choice.
Since you like talking about cognitive missteps so much, here is an example of one for you: you thinking you know me. No I was never molested by a priest or suffered any other serious trauma. Def a low level continuous trauma, I was raised catholic, come on? I'm thankful I was, perfect oppurtunity to come to the realizations I have.
I'm just not projecting my personal experiences into the arguments I make against god/religion/spirituality. I think my arguments are sound and they stand on their own. My veracity for the topic comes from my need to differentiate from my family and not neccessarily a reaction to catholicism.
You should adopt the Pauldo model of the Universe.
Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Nov 13, 2010 02:36
^
I don't conflate these things:
- Science
- Religion
- Belief in God
All three can exist and operate independently from each other. By the same token, none of the three is completely incompatible with the others. One can believe in God (not necessarily the God of Jerry Falwell) and not follow any existing religion. One can be religious and still apply the scientific method to matters other than spirituality. And one may be an atheist and still be “religious”, in a sense that one conforms to certain models of thinking and behavior typically expected of an atheist.
As for religion being some kind of anti-scientific dark force, I invite you to look into the origin of words “algebra”, “chemistry” and “algorithm”. Then we’ll talk, if you still feel like it.
I do understand people who are tired of having religion stuffed into their throats at every corner, be it a couple of missionaries at their door step or their Head of State swearing on the Bible or “In God We Trust” on every banknote. I get it. It’s pushy and has very little to do with a deeply personal faith in the Unseen. But then, I never felt compelled to show up at the polls with a tee-shirt saying anything on the subject. Because I don’t see how it would be any different from those missionaries at my door step.
Live and let live. It doesn’t matter which one of us is right. What matters is how we treat others and ourselves, what kind of decisions we make and what kind of life we live.
