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"The flop industry" article by Dj Yaniv Tal discussion
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Ellon
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 6, 2009 14:51
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On 2009-04-06 06:10, Buddha Monkey wrote:
The article is true in a lot of the facts, but it is presented in a much to negative fashion, as it has always been with Yaniv Tal hehe.
I think it is important to buy the music you like, and to support the musiciansm, and it is a joke to say that cd's do not have their place in this genre but won't go into that.
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+1
Regarding the "industry analysis" i won´t say anything though it's clear that this is not the place to be if your looking for the big $$$$$....thank god!!!! And i also "agree" that to turn this scene into a money making machine is simply to destroy the vibe that it's left...
Now...his "analysis" of the people, of the music, of the culture (absense of it) is pretty negative and shows a revolted guy...i'm really sorry!!!! His words of fame, girls in bikini and numbers are...i dont even know!!!!
All the reasons he states for this scene to be uninteresting are the same that made it interesting to many...including me!!!!
Still many of the suggestionsin the end of the article are very positive...
 
https://soundcloud.com/arglebarglemusic
http://soundcloud.com/turvytopsy
http://soundcloud.com/capecodplatform |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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Posted : Apr 6, 2009 15:40
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On 2009-04-06 14:51, Ellon wrote:
Still many of the suggestionsin the end of the article are very positive...
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i think thats the main idea
all the rest is kinda to clear why this what need to happen.
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 6, 2009 17:36
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YAWN!
we knew it back in the day , that this day will come . Lol.
Started wt artists saying projects closed Eg. psypeyote.
Labels Closing down Eg. Monsoon
And guess wat now ! - distributors And this time a person whos done it all, but didnt master any ?
Anyways, Sucks that we belong to such a negative scene .
The only good thing he did say was , which i hadnt realised till i read it , was that almost all people in ths genre are EXTREME personalities.
Lol. No wonder.
Anyways,im wit spindrift on this one. Psytrance,industry,Pfff! suck it up. |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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Posted : Apr 6, 2009 17:48
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On 2009-04-06 12:58, RK9 wrote:
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On 2009-04-06 12:27, Elad wrote:
did u ever lose week work , leave your girlfriend and baby alone for this week too , because people asked u to , for nothing?
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I would like to answer you but I really can't understand what you are asking at all.
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its called booking.. when i meen dj i dont refer to evryone that play for his 20 friends..
once you will get some emails asking you to come to far places out of your country that dont speak your language then we see if you charge money or not , i bet u would.
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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RK9
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Apr 6, 2009 19:52
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On 2009-04-06 17:48, Elad wrote:
its called booking.. when i meen dj i dont refer to evryone that play for his 20 friends..
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I've played at a 500-person party that charged $35 at the door and I still didn't get paid for it so don't make assumptions. |
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mubali
Mubali
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Posted : Apr 6, 2009 23:32
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I took this passage from the article that was mentioned...
"On a busy corner in São Paulo, Brazil, street vendors pitch the latest "tecnobrega" CDs, including one by a hot band called Banda Calypso. Like CDs from most street vendors, these did not come from a record label. But neither are they illicit. They came directly from the band. Calypso distributes masters of its CDs and CD liner art to street vendor networks in towns it plans to tour, with full agreement that the vendors will copy the CDs, sell them, and keep all the money. That's OK, because selling discs isn't Calypso's main source of income. The band is really in the performance business — and business is good. Traveling from town to town this way, preceded by a wave of supercheap CDs, Calypso has filled its shows and paid for a private jet.
The vendors generate literal street cred in each town Calypso visits, and its omnipresence in the urban soundscape means that it gets huge crowds to its rave/dj/concert events. Free music is just publicity for a far more lucrative tour business. Nobody thinks of this as piracy."
When it all comes down to it, there's an unmentioned factor in why a lot of this doesn't work out as well as it should. We are based on a finite resource called time. There are only 24 hours in a day, and the way that we get things is by exchanging our time for commodities.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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Posted : Apr 7, 2009 00:29
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On 2009-04-06 19:52, RK9 wrote:
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On 2009-04-06 17:48, Elad wrote:
its called booking.. when i meen dj i dont refer to evryone that play for his 20 friends..
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I've played at a 500-person party that charged $35 at the door and I still didn't get paid for it so don't make assumptions.
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yeah great quote just half post and make me look like arrogant prick.
its not who got bigger cock contest , and i didnt refer to you personly. no offend. sorry if was not clear. if you play in big events (specialy overseas was the point)then u should get paid. just calculate the numbers u just said , call ur local sound gear company and check out how much that is. call the club also to see how much the rent is (if its club or whatever). remember the bar makes alot too.
u know what , even if one get to play for 20 people then still need that money since they took the time (job, missing days cost alot) and used the name for making money (even if they fail in the end) and im sure if they get x20 people then expected the dj not getting any bonus , so no discount when they fail as well. fair imo.
if entrance fee is 5$ then i think possible to concider , its totaly diffrent situation. (not that the baby back home needs less food)
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Stregone
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 7, 2009 02:48
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One point I think is correct is that in this scene you do it because you like the music and you want to live doing this music ( not financially )....
but of course it could be really hard to pay your life with the music... I think the only artists who really lives well are the ones who really do something special and get booked often in big festivals who pays full book, or medium partys(500-2000 people), like at least 2-4 times a month... If they get payed like 2000 euros a book, they could live well, pay their materials, and makes their childs lives welll....
Otherwise I think they need to do sidesjob or something else and anyway have a standard of life quite low, like not many expenses... most time spent doing music ( it is cheap ), etc etc
So anybody who is into this scene should know cd's sell are fucked, you don't make big money from that, you don't even get back the materials and time cost....
The only way is to do fucking good music, to get known and get booked for the biggest partys you can with the highest book fee you can...
In any case I think 90% of the people who dj's or produce music makes it because they love to do it... many dj's in the most part of the "small" partys don't get payed, and also many little live act....
But then it is not a job, is like a hobby... which I find pretty cool indeed  But most of the people who spin music in this scene will never get enough money to really live of it in a "decent" way....
Anyway is a scene which can give you a lot but also take you a lot
Is upon everybody to decide what you want to take or let.... as in life
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RK9
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Apr 7, 2009 03:06
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I don't know what it's like where you are Elad but around here there are so many DJs who are willing to pay for free that you'd be crazy to actually pay someone more than like $50 to do it.
Once you've booked your 1-3 headliners who you may pay a significant amount for, you don't even have to ask for other DJs because they will come to you asking to play. Newbie DJs like me will often play for $0 or maybe $25.
Even experienced local DJs who have been playing for 10 years still only get $75-$150 or maybe $200 if they're a crowd favorite.
Now that's how the underground scene works, I'm sure if you play at a big club that you can expect a slightly bigger paycheck + drink tickets but who wants to spin at a club? I hate clubs.
The only times I've ever seen psy at a club are when shpongle, GMS, infected, astrix, etc come into town and I never end up going because $$$ and as I noted before I hate clubs 
Also, the bar makes money? Trancers around here mostly aren't into alcohol, they prefer other chemicals |
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Stregone
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 7, 2009 03:13
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RK9 here in Switzerland is mostly the same in most part of the partys even in some of the biggest partys( like summer never ends festival - 5000-6000 people for 4 days ), most of the dj's & live acts play for the travel fees, big names a part
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Apr 7, 2009 09:27
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Is it so fresh? Really?
Think about it a little beyond the colorful design of Wired...
Nothing fresh in it. The same old story:
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• Zero marginal cost
What's free: things that can be distributed without an appreciable cost to anyone. Free to whom: everyone.
This describes nothing so well as online music. Between digital reproduction and peer-to-peer distribution, the real cost of distributing music has truly hit bottom. This is a case where the product has become free because of sheer economic gravity, with or without a business model. That force is so powerful that laws, guilt trips, DRM, and every other barrier to piracy the labels can think of have failed. Some artists give away their music online as a way of marketing concerts, merchandise, licensing, and other paid fare. But others have simply accepted that, for them, music is not a moneymaking business. It's something they do for other reasons, from fun to creative expression. Which, of course, has always been true for most musicians anyway.
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Somehow it's always people who don't try to dedicate their lives to music (or any other art) who write these things.
Or in other words- I’m yet to see a poor economist.
Anderson is basically saying that aggregators are gonna make big money in the new situation- that is a good observation, but that’s nothing new. They have always been making the money. They were just aggregating differently. Actually this new era in a way makes things worse. Because the tail is getting longer it means that the aggregators will be making a lot of money from a lot of people who make very very little money or none at all.
This “Free” economy is not very free really and it works for few- usually for those who already have a lot of money (like the Daily Mail & Prince in the free CD example), and for a lucky few that “make it”. Again, nothing new.
Also his equation that “professional music making” = “moneymaking business” is shallow and populist. To make music seriously you need to dedicate yourself totally to it, and this doesn’t mean you’re not doing it from “creative expression” or you’re not having fun. Why no one ever expect professors of economy to theorize on economics or rocket fuel scientist to get big chunks of metal up in space for fun and free expression without getting money for it? I wonder…
The truth is that unless we create a model that will support artists to work on their art professionally (not for making money) we will less and less deep and meaningful art.
And this is, btw, not a question of “guilt trips”, it’s a question of education and realization.
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"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Apr 7, 2009 10:55
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On 2009-04-07 09:27, shahar wrote:
The truth is that unless we create a model that will support artists to work on their art professionally (not for making money) we will less and less deep and meaningful art.
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Oh really?
So you find a correlation between the depth and meaningfulness of music and if the artist can survive professionally on it?
In that case I guess pop and rock played on the radio is deeper and more meaningful than music in small obscure genres like ours?
Psy/goa producers have very rarely managed to make a living from the music. I knew a few who used to do so and they had to constantly produce to be able to eat and pay the rent.
After being locked in to their studio seven days a week for a few years, they according to them self completely lost their love for trance. And this was some very well known names in the days when trance was trendy and had at least decent sales figures and file sharing didn't exist.
How many artists make an acceptable living from their music in this scene today?
My impression is instead that one of the big problems with this scene is that producers are trying to make a living from it. This is what gives us all the streamlined copy and paste music, made to fit in on compilations with the currently popular styles. I'm confident that if the commercial aspect did not exists we would see a lot more variation. Commercialism does not generate more deep and meaningful music.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
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bearpill
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Apr 7, 2009 12:54
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I'd say nobody is going to make any money out of music anymore... the writing is on the wall..
just type the cd you are looking for (any genre)followed by the word blogspot and tell me what comes up..
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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Posted : Apr 7, 2009 14:49
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On 2009-04-07 12:54, bearpill wrote:
I'd say nobody is going to make any money out of music anymore... the writing is on the wall..
just type the cd you are looking for (any genre)followed by the word blogspot and tell me what comes up..
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comes up nothing new , could dont that with napster and music galaxy 10 years ago and emule and soulseek later you know. wow so now u can find it on google , hurray. the future is here. rapidshare for the people!
the end point is that you can get the mp3 folder for free , but not the karma of support the art you enjoy from... and that support leads for more of that goodies in better ways too... artist that get paid makes better music in the end just for the time and equipment. offcourse the mind is the first thing to initiate it but with no time and equipment one can drum on cans and record it to casette. you wont search that on your blogspot right ?
when you find what to write on google search to make your life reacher and satisfing more then 'i got that cd for free' level, let us know. im pritty sure its not comes with 'blogspot' after lol  www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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J
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 7, 2009 16:20
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Most Brazilian artists are starting to produce their releases, such as Mubali mentioned (Calypso)
Cause MP3 has done so much here (for the people, mainly).
They charge a huge amount of money to make a live concert.
It' shitty music, I can guarantee that. But still, people like it.
And they charge 5 to 10 reais fora CD (USS 2 to 4), but they make concerts all around the country, every week practically.
So, is MP3 a problem to them? No.
And it also helped the band, cause now, if you ask about Calypso to any person in Brazil, they've probably been to one their concerts.
What I mean is, there are two sides on a coin... |
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