| Author
|
"The flop industry" article by Dj Yaniv Tal discussion
|
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Apr 5, 2009 14:58:39
|
|
RK9
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
210
Posted : Apr 6, 2009 01:43
|
One thing I'm somewhat cautious of is, these days, how can you tell whether a DJ is playing music he/she didn't pay for, or whether he/she is just playing backup copies and the original ones are left at home because he/she didn't want to risk them getting damaged or stolen? Or legally-bought .wav files burned to CD?
I think the scene could be much more financially successful if people gave up on this wasteful practice of selling physical CDs and just sold .wav or .flac for a relatively small amount of $$.
If someone has the choice to buy just the one track that they want, they are more likely to drop the money. If their only way to legally buy it is to pay US $20 to ship a poorly-packaged CD from germany then they are more likely to just pirate it. |
|
|
Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
1772
Posted : Apr 6, 2009 04:32
|
Once again, selling CDs in this genre is a joke. It's a hassle for everyone, and the only profit goes to distributors.
That being said, thanks for Attractive Synthesis!
 You believe in the users?
Yeah, sure. If I don't have a user, then who wrote me? |
|
|
|
braininavat
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
233
Posted : Apr 6, 2009 05:04
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-04-06 01:43, RK9 wrote:
One thing I'm somewhat cautious of is, these days, how can you tell whether a DJ is playing music he/she didn't pay for, or whether he/she is just playing backup copies and the original ones are left at home because he/she didn't want to risk them getting damaged or stolen? Or legally-bought .wav files burned to CD?
|
|
Well, I've been away from the scene for a few years now..coming back now its depressing how things have got worse, I was hoping the corner would have finally been turned.
I thought the most interesting part of that article was how in the past your had 20 artist selling to 10k+ people...now you have 500 artists selling to < 10k...
When you factor in mp3s, you have the same equation with less than 10k people who don't have to pay for anything.
To me the only possible solution is that you come out with an album, you print 200 vinyl copies, no cds, and you sell them for 30 bucks each. When they run out thats it..djs go back to spinning records...Then only 200 djs in the world can actually play that track at a party..of course it can be ripped to mp3 but if everyone is spinning records and you can't get a dj gig without vinyl then your out of luck.
That would be $6k to split between the label, artist, distributor...
Until your short circuit the piracy problem this scene will just keep banging its head against the wall..Its a basic economic equation that when you have infinite supply of something the true market price goes to zero no matter what the demand.
Not to mention there is a cool retro/oldschool kind of vibe to going back to vinyl. |
|
|
|
RK9
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
210
Posted : Apr 6, 2009 05:07
|
|
How about a system where all of the DJs at parties submit their tracklist at the end of their set. The tracklist is then posted online so people who went to the party can identify the songs they liked (and the producers can get publicity), and then each producer is paid per track per head? This is pretty similar to how ASCAP does things but obviously most psy artists aren't covered by ASCAP |
|
|
|
RK9
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
210
Posted : Apr 6, 2009 05:12
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-04-06 05:04, braininavat wrote:
Well, I've been away from the scene for a few years now..coming back now its depressing how things have got worse, I was hoping the corner would have finally been turned.
I thought the most interesting part of that article was how in the past your had 20 artist selling to 10k+ people...now you have 500 artists selling to < 10k...
When you factor in mp3s, you have the same equation with less than 10k people who don't have to pay for anything.
To me the only possible solution is that you come out with an album, you print 200 vinyl copies, no cds, and you sell them for 30 bucks each. When they run out thats it..djs go back to spinning records...Then only 200 djs in the world can actually play that track at a party..of course it can be ripped to mp3 but if everyone is spinning records and you can't get a dj gig without vinyl then your out of luck.
That would be $6k to split between the label, artist, distributor...
Until your short circuit the piracy problem this scene will just keep banging its head against the wall..Its a basic economic equation that when you have infinite supply of something the true market price goes to zero no matter what the demand.
Not to mention there is a cool retro/oldschool kind of vibe to going back to vinyl. King of a magic/faith element that is now lost...
|
|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostalgia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitism
Vinyl is even more expensive and environment-destroying than CDs, not to mention lower sound quality, plus vinyl records wear out.
Join us here in the present, Mr. Dinosaur  |
|
|
|
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Apr 6, 2009 05:27
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-04-06 04:32, Kane wrote:
Once again, selling CDs in this genre is a joke. It's a hassle for everyone, and the only profit goes to distributors.
That being said, thanks for Attractive Synthesis!
|
|
you are welcome
evrything in the right place and time
my next album will be pressed on cd.
out of the 20k+ downloads for my free album (full wav quality) if i was asking for 1$ i estimate i would end up with less then 1000$.
thats the face of the scene imo
buying my cd include special things more then plastic and files that you could download.
special 2 points of good karma included here..
it showd real support that helps artist get more time to make music. i think its all about that... never asked to be superstar and have private jet (dont have even my own car yet) just enough to get by...
i hope if you like it you buy it , as artist i did what is expected and tried to be as creative as i can and not repetative or trendy , neither asked rediculus payment from the label. and if u buy it , it will help to make more free albums too!
p/s digital sales are by far more crap then cd sales as far i got the numbers from few labels
and also.. download is actualy not even cheaper then cd looking on beatport prices? i just saw song for 2.5$ ?? 22$ for 9 tracks without cover?? now thats joke. for my album we paid ALOT on art for the cd , if someone doesnt care then its ok but its part of the album now imo.
Quote:
|
On 2009-04-06 01:43, RK9 wrote:
One thing I'm somewhat cautious of is, these days, how can you tell whether a DJ is playing music he/she didn't pay for, or whether he/she is just playing backup copies and the original ones are left at home because he/she didn't want to risk them getting damaged or stolen? Or legally-bought .wav files burned to CD?
I think the scene could be much more financially successful if people gave up on this wasteful practice of selling physical CDs and just sold .wav or .flac for a relatively small amount of $$.
If someone has the choice to buy just the one track that they want, they are more likely to drop the money. If their only way to legally buy it is to pay US $20 to ship a poorly-packaged CD from germany then they are more likely to just pirate it.
|
|
obviously , yes they should buy and play original cds.
want to save the cd from scratches? ok have minimum the cover with the burn copy. hell even bring the original in the case and play your leagal copy.
print your fukin beatport reciet or something i dont know. you make living from dj then yes buy full cd for one track so what set fee usualy is like 30 cds easy.
anyhow it should be more a movement that being done from whill and not from force and rules. dj that dont want to support his favorite artists is just dumb and riping the system that he is enjoying from.
and who want to buy just one track out of my album is welcome not to , i want that art in that media , cd album , something you can hold and be exited from , something you wait for it to get in the mail..something your friends see u got and pick up open and look.. come on its by far more apriciated then track of the internet on burned cd.
the music is the real deal , but the pack is not less important. or you cant see the diffrence from subaru to jaguar as they both will get you to where you wanna get? 
its all about how you make the road www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
|
|
|
V3NOM
Inactive User
Started Topics :
131
Posts :
2234
Posted : Apr 6, 2009 06:10
|
The article is true in a lot of the facts, but it is presented in a much to negative fashion, as it has always been with Yaniv Tal hehe.
I think it is important to buy the music you like, and to support the musiciansm, and it is a joke to say that cd's do not have their place in this genre but won't go into that.
The most important message from that article IMHO is the fact that software has allowed ANYBODY to make music, and therefore the scene has been flooded with so much CRAP that the supply has become much higher than the deman and it is killing off sales.
If labels stuck to their guns and reduced their releases to true quality music they would most likely get higher sales back for less physical output.
I am tired of friends paying to start a cruddy label for their friends home brewed trance sh!t to be released.
But really, the true psy trance scne pretty much collapsed post 2000, and now it is more and outdoor club scene in the major cities of the world, with underground club music being played to candy ravers who think they are more hartcore for going to an outside rave!
It will actually be great to see this scene colapse and then hopefully rebuild itself back from the roots or if it just completely dies out, well the loss of something so sh!tty is no real loss at all...
music is for entertainment but this scene has failed to entertain me since around 2003.
I hate you, you hate me, we are all so hap hap happy! |
|
|
|
RK9
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
210
Posted : Apr 6, 2009 06:34
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-04-06 05:27, Elad wrote:you make living from dj then yes buy full cd for one track so what set fee usualy is like 30 cds easy.
|
|
Haha make a living from DJing? Yeah right. Even if you don't count the money I've spent on vinyl, CD and digital tracks, the money I've spent on equipment alone and the time I've put into it are far more than I've ever been paid
That is to say, I've never been paid to DJ and don't really expect to be, ever |
|
|
|
RK9
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
210
Posted : Apr 6, 2009 06:41
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-04-06 06:10, Buddha Monkey wrote:
The article is true in a lot of the facts, but it is presented in a much to negative fashion, as it has always been with Yaniv Tal hehe.
I think it is important to buy the music you like, and to support the musiciansm, and it is a joke to say that cd's do not have their place in this genre but won't go into that.
The most important message from that article IMHO is the fact that software has allowed ANYBODY to make music, and therefore the scene has been flooded with so much CRAP that the supply has become much higher than the deman and it is killing off sales.
If labels stuck to their guns and reduced their releases to true quality music they would most likely get higher sales back for less physical output.
I am tired of friends paying to start a cruddy label for their friends home brewed trance sh!t to be released.
But really, the true psy trance scne pretty much collapsed post 2000, and now it is more and outdoor club scene in the major cities of the world, with underground club music being played to candy ravers who think they are more hartcore for going to an outside rave!
It will actually be great to see this scene colapse and then hopefully rebuild itself back from the roots or if it just completely dies out, well the loss of something so sh!tty is no real loss at all...
music is for entertainment but this scene has failed to entertain me since around 2003.
|
|
lol and you accuse others of being negative! |
|
|
|
Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Apr 6, 2009 07:08
|
|
Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Apr 6, 2009 07:31
|
|
Also: what about when distributors go out of business? What labels have been forced to cease operations after the failure of Flying UK, Nova-Tekk, MDMA, Z.M.A., Two Hands (if rumours are true), and Yaniv Tal's own Cosmophilia? Seems like an important piece of the puzzle--every bit as vital to the discussion as "downloading."
|
|
|
|
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Apr 6, 2009 12:27
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-04-06 06:34, RK9 wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2009-04-06 05:27, Elad wrote:you make living from dj then yes buy full cd for one track so what set fee usualy is like 30 cds easy.
|
|
Haha make a living from DJing? Yeah right. Even if you don't count the money I've spent on vinyl, CD and digital tracks, the money I've spent on equipment alone and the time I've put into it are far more than I've ever been paid
That is to say, I've never been paid to DJ and don't really expect to be, ever
|
|
did u ever lose week work , leave your girlfriend and baby alone for this week too , because people asked u to , for nothing? www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
|
|
|
RK9
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
210
Posted : Apr 6, 2009 12:58
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-04-06 12:27, Elad wrote:
did u ever lose week work , leave your girlfriend and baby alone for this week too , because people asked u to , for nothing?
|
|
I would like to answer you but I really can't understand what you are asking at all. |
|
|
|
Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Apr 6, 2009 14:10
|
Of course he thought it was great with Cosmophilia almost having a monopoly on psytrance distribution and he could spend all his time around this music without any interruption of a regular job.
I for one is glad that all sorts of artists can get their music heard, not only the ones which Yaniv thinks spend enough time on their tracks or considers beneficial for the market.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
|
|
|
|
