| Author
|
the economy and the local scene
|
karmavsDogma
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
Posts :
507
Posted : Feb 22, 2009 04:23
|
The economy (along with recent crackdowns on EDM events by local authorities) has been a detriment to psytrance events here in Arizona. Luckily, there are other EDM crews here who are starting to branch out and bring psytrance into their events. It's a bummer - we haven't done an outdoor since November and probably won't be doing another one until May. We're having to miss out on the best camping months here in the desert (late Feb thru late April) from our usual fun (ask someone who's been here how much fun it is).
Apparently the economy isn't hurting our potential audience, however. Just last weekend I went to a local "ravey-rave" to see some friends play, and close to 2500 kids paid $20+ to be there, plus bought a ton of water and who knows the value of the inebriants consumed.
If only we could get 1/10th of those people to support the psy scene consistently here, we'd be able to do 1-2 events a month and not have to go broke doing it. I'm curious how people in other areas have found success, especially when faced with a less-than-receptive EDM following (most people who fund the rave "scene" here are into happy hardcore).
  "Every generation needs a new revolution." ~Thomas Jefferson
Join ours: http://www.campaignforliberty.com
Overmind Works - bringing quality psytrance to the Arizona scene.
http://www.overmindworks.org |
|
|
|
mentalcandy
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
523
Posted : Feb 22, 2009 21:34
|
i still say, this is a mindless topic......... the economy and local scene shouldn't even effect ur shanti........
bOm 
Sorting scenezzzZ to find the ultimate chill :DD |
|
|
|
hardkornate
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
376
Posted : Feb 23, 2009 02:44
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-02-22 04:23, karmavsDogma wrote:
If only we could get 1/10th of those people to support the psy scene consistently here, we'd be able to do 1-2 events a month and not have to go broke doing it. I'm curious how people in other areas have found success, especially when faced with a less-than-receptive EDM following (most people who fund the rave "scene" here are into happy hardcore).
|
|
My biggest fans are happy hardcore kids. 
You have to infiltrate. Whoever made that comment something to the effect of "I sure hope people aren't taking advantage of psy and booking them on side stages" is really shortsighted. I got my start by setting up a side stage at someone elses show. I spent $250 renting some speakers and got a bunch of the better midwest psy DJ's to come play for free. We also lost about 2k douing a side stage at a major outdoor EDM event. Afgter those two freebies, people starting asking for psy and it's been growing since then. Now when our main company promotes events, 20% of the music is psy and when my psy-centric crew does it, the entire main is psy. This also benefits all the promoter who only do psy as we are creating new fans left and right.
Of course, if you look at the ravers as "them" and somehow think you are different, you've already lost. It's all just music, being pretentious/separatist about it will only attract pretentious people who want to keep the numbers small so they can somehow feel elite.
All psy directly correspond to othe rtypes of EDM. If you can see the connections, it's easy to sell EDM fans on psy as long as you present the correct form to them.
Dark Psy = hardcore, hard techno
Full On = happy hardcore, regular trance, electrohouse
morning = regular trance
dubstep and chillout = drum and bass
prog psy = prog anything...
|
|
|
|
Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
1848
Posted : Feb 23, 2009 02:57
|
|
Well said. That's how it was for me doing small parties in Nashville a few years back, although in that case, we got more of a turnout from the goth/industrial kids than the other EDM "supporters".
|
|
|
|
mez
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
163
Posted : Feb 23, 2009 04:09
|
But whats the point?
whats this all about then, I mean I completely am all about getting all kinds of people together for serious fun.
Turning people on is one thing but playing trance at a happy hardcore party is another. And I used to spin the stuff, for years.
I agree we can't discriminate, especially in hard times when we need to band together to make our music happen.
I'm saying don't water yourself down too much in order to appeal to a wide range. Next thing you know you'll be hearing nirvana samples in ... oh wait that happened
My advice, better to make the really special events happen once in blue moon, like Gemini, than to expect monster parties every month. I have basically decided to pick a party once a season that's really worth going to and then do what it takes to make it happen.
in hard times, spinning tracks with a few friends in a basement or in a field can help you get through it.
|
|
|
|
hardkornate
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
376
Posted : Feb 23, 2009 04:10
|
Ya, my bad on the indistrial, it's one step away from dark anyways. Metal head love dark psy and full on as well.
I think a lot of what people perceive as a lack of support is really a lack of promotion. |
|
|
|
hardkornate
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
376
Posted : Feb 23, 2009 04:58
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-02-23 04:09, mez wrote:
Turning people on is one thing but playing trance at a happy hardcore party is another. And I used to spin the stuff, for years.
|
|
Most people like a diverse selection of music. hhc fans like the music for different reasons. Some of them just like fast, high energy music. Neuro covers that quite well... |
|
|
|
FattyAcid
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
531
Posted : Feb 23, 2009 20:02
|
although it could be argued that Esoteric Gen has suffered because of it, but we have always tapped the well of EDM fans that also like to camp in order to fill up the field...hell, even our private trance "family" parties usually have some sort of progressive/tribal something or other played early on...
Some parties, this creates SUCH an INTENSE anticipation for the first trance beat to drop, that when it does, the whole fucking place goes nuts because no matter how naive you are to trance, when psy comes on after a few hours of slower dance music, it amps you up.... and some of the coolest, hardest working, best trance dancers that attend our events don't EVER listen to trance until they get to an E-Gen party.....
A lot of people hear rave and translate that into drug party...there really isnt a whole lot of difference between raves and trance parties (I've been inside some pretty ppppppsycccchhhoodelic warehouses....and outdoor raves that look no different than a psy event..guess that comes from the breakbeat burning man killers copping trance deco style), and have danced just as long and hard to other styles before I found psy....its ALL about intentions, and the intentions of the crowd you are promoting to, so it's best to not promote a "rave".... but RAVERS, by and large, would enjoy trance events....so how do you promote an event that looks the same in almost all ways to a "rave" TO ravers and still actually have a trancedance party..... I've thought about playing snippets of films like LCV and Last Hippie Standing to the whole crowd before trance sets, always try to talk to people about their intentions at our event, and discourage any rave puddle behavior.....
I remember one morning i was working the vendor tent, and this feller came up to me, and started asking "what happened last night?... I thought it was a rave...but it wasnt no rave...it was like.....you know what I mean???It was like a rave but totally wasnt....it was like some kind of church for ritual techo dancing"....knew we were doing things right as he slowly walked in no particular direction at all with his head cocked back as if he were drinking from an overhead waterfall, smiling as intensely as he could at the sun, as I think he hadnt told the sun how much he appreciated it in a long time, if ever and was trying to make up for his prior lack of apparent appreciation.... empty handed,but, I assume, completely mindful
Wake walking through your sleep dream
Esoteric Generation (Arkansas)/Beatnik Production(AR)/ Three Way Mirrors (West Coast) |
|
|
|
Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
1848
Posted : Feb 23, 2009 21:50
|
|
Well put.
|
|
|
|
hardkornate
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
376
Posted : Feb 25, 2009 05:48
|
|
I always rate the TRUE success of a party by how many newbies stick around to help clean up. |
|
|
|
light-o-matic
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
176
Posted : Feb 25, 2009 07:36
|
EDIT Oops I posted in the wrong thread...
|
|
|
|
Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
1848
Posted : Mar 2, 2009 00:01
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-02-23 04:10, hardkornate wrote:
I think a lot of what people perceive as a lack of support is really a lack of promotion.
|
|
This is true. On another note, I think another problem which for many reasons doesn't get talked about is when events and the groups throwing them drift away from promoting the music on a greater scale and focus on promoting themselves... or each other. There is a distinct lack of diversity in the US scene and I think it directly relates to the fact that at many regional parties, 75% of the lineup is guaranteed to consist of members of the local family with the remaining 25% consisting of headliners who are either a) friends with the family, b) members of out of town families, in which case, booking trades often are involved, or c) foreign artists who have traveled to the area using their own will and resources for the purpose of making connections and having some new experience. In some cases you will even see events where the locals book themselves more than once either under the same name of a new/different name rather than fill a lineup with more acts. This leads to stagnation and chips away at diversity since people eventually grow tired of seeing the same circle of people performing at every festival they can afford to get to. In these sorts of scenarios, things like individual talent and crowd suggestions, etc. take a back seat to things like cost and back-patting. There are certainly many logical arguments for this, however in my personal opinion in the long run this does little to improve our scene and help the US shed its "backwater" image in the world. It's also hard for me to accept the "economy" excuse for cutting corners like this, since many foreign headliners today will play for far less than they are actually worth just for the experience of playing in a place like the US which is new to them and (see above) generally seen as a closed arena that's hard to get into. There are many many talented headliners who, with all figures included, would cost roughly $1000 to bring to the US (give or take a few hundred) and between a typical psy-family of, say, 15 people, to come up with that much between all of them is really not very hard... our economy is not THAT bad (yet). And if it really is that hard, one could always cooperate with other families to share costs but in reality this is rarely done as it brings little direct benefit to the individuals involved. If so called "third-world" countries have been able to do it for years then there is no reason why it can't be done in the USA.
So, in a nutshell, I personally feel that the "economy" is a weak excuse used to blanket other less spoken about issues and motivations. Of course, those who know only speak about it in whispers for fear of inevitably offending their friends and damaging their own reputations and costing them possible bookings. However the sad truth is that in most cases, the amount of talent you need to have versus the amount of ass kissing you need to do to make it at all in the US scene is severely, severely disproportionate.
That being said, it is also certainly true that throwing events does cost individuals time, money, stress and effort that many of them will never get back. These people should be acknowledged for this, but it should come from the larger community and not themselves or their inner circle. There are also many many talented artists and musicians who belong to many of these local groups who definitely deserve to be heard. However to me what separates a real psytrance event throwing family from a "vanity" group is their willingness to go the extra mile and participate in this global musical village everybody keeps talking about and put themselves in the back burner for a second, even despite all the hard work they may be doing. However blaming the "economy" for booking oneself or one's friend twice for the same event in a society that already has too many chiefs and not enough indians is rather inexcusable to me. (For starters, the faltering economy is producing some of the cheapest plane tickets available in YEARS.) There are plenty members of every psy family who bust just as much ass as the others (if not more) who do not get to enjoy the thanks or recognition of putting themselves on stage as a motivation and to me, these people have some of the best attitudes of all of them.
|
|
|
|
hardkornate
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
376
Posted : Mar 2, 2009 02:12
|
Excellent post Axis.
I'm trying hard to rotate through the available resources, and luckily, since psy is pretty new to MN repeats is not really a problem for us. Theres a pool of about 20talented people in the midwest and we have NYC, GA, NC, TX, and CA all available for cheap plane tickets.
I'll gladly help set up a flight share circle with other promoters if they like to ensure we can get international talent for national prices. We'd need to work together and build some trust, but I think as long as we take turns on the good dates like new years, halloween, and things like that, it would work out great. |
|
|
|
Moonclear
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
162
Posted : Mar 6, 2009 19:23
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-02-03 08:49, Ascension wrote:
Note to all party goers of the psytrance scene: the measly admission price is nothing compared to what organizers lose on the party.
Pay or play (or volunteer) your part. Heck, I've paid admission to get into parties, ended up playing and helped with setup/teardown/cleanup, and I was glad to do it and will probably end up doing it again.
|
|
ok, hi, I started this thread and due to my challenged circumstances have yet to read all the responses .. ok .. ok .. I wanna say, maximum respect to the hardworking organizers, and the sad part is that I actually agree with basically everything the person wrote above , BUT,
but but but
in the kind of destitution about which I'm talking, the kind of destitution I have endured for years and years, Ms Frisbee, barely at any point do I ever have enough to afford the door .. last month for the first time in ever so long I sat out a number of parties because 1) I could not afford the door and 2) the thought of hustling up the cash as I have done so many times before gave me acute organ trouble I could not ignore .. My exhortations apply to destitution, penury, to not having, be there never so many haves. I tell you the president of the United States is a black man, BUT, who is the last person I saw passed out in some semiforsaken spot dressed in rags and foreign to a shower, yes you guessed it, probably a black man. These people need help .. a dollar goes a long way. People get het up about this topic, that the rents are high and the homeless shelters (I live in one) are full, so they can get it through the thick heads of the straights that people fall through the cracks and get ground down by all and sundry including by the straights' stupid and obstructionist attitudes. (I feel like my head is squatted by little people who are still fuming over the dollar. these little people MUST leave my head NOW. -Ed.) Now on the european Continent there is so much homelessness and none of these people have anywhere to go, there are no or virtually no homeless shelters anywhere on the Continent and the only welfare democracy in all Europe of which I know is England; most European, eg Western european countries have few or no social services. God's blessings evermore on the United States, where people with a stalked profile, like me, (and hopefully not you), can get shelter, housing, yes welfare, and all the rest of it. The United States has as far as I know the most evolved social services/benefits system in the world. Contrast this to this anti-Iraq War thing I attended the other day, where my assertion that the barbaric Europe (excepting England) has virtually no shelters/benefits, is awash in homelessness, and is infinitely trumped by NYC/the US in this matter was countered with such a pathetic, sheer-lamo knee-jerk reaction that I have put them on my own petri dish ever since .. for, perhaps you guessed it, I was much felled by the crime of European homelessness myself.
So don't be like these straights. When I tell you that often I don't have enough to pay the door, period, the end, not only does it mean that I physically have, for example, only pennies, in my life, overall, for the nth time, you understand, which is nothing unusual for me, you understand; but also it means that you are under the ethical obligation to believe me.
The rule is always to take complaints seriously. Furthermore I am telling the truth.
My new theory is that behind people's ignoring poverty (which Barack Obama doesn't do, for he has thus far emphasized economic recovery), is a bunch of WMDs and a known crazed army run amok.
Theories aside, I know organizers work hard, I know trance is important, and I'm taking this moment to ask all you guys what has happened to people who have passed through your lives whom you have loved. Are any of them nowadays poor, penurius, destitute, like me? forced into prostitution? It's March, does anyone have frostbite? -these things are important, this is serious, trance gets stalked a lot and in my considered opinion we have to put our heads together and save our asses with finality.
As for the European homelessness this scam, this crime, is sometimes unknown to the highest echelons of the government.. benefits .. Democrats.. see I will acquire yet more clout once I report it yet again to the bigwigs as I am dashing off to do this very instant ... I bid you peace. |
|
|
|
Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Mar 6, 2009 19:58
|
That being the case, you should first ask yourself if trying to get into parties should be a priority. It sounds like you have far more to worry about. Psytrance parties are great, but there's something called real life that should take priority. If this sounds harsh, that's good, you needed to hear it this way.
If you really feel that it is a priority, then volunteer to help out and get in for free that way.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
|
|
|
|
