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the economy and the local scene
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EyalTov
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
12
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 10:22
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To my opinion determine the admission price for parties/festivals is based on two main factors:
1. Total cost of the event, including promotion, line up, flights, accommodation, venue, deco, equipment rentals (lights, sound) time, printing, employees and more
2. Estimated number of attendance
Unfortunately our scene is small. but we still want to see the best artists performing live acts with the best sound, best deco and killer venue.
That’s bring us to the following equations
High Expenses party – small scene = high admission price, (if the organizer want to break even)
High Expenses party – big scene = low admission price
Low Expenses party – small scene = low admission price, (but no people)
So let’s grow the scene together:)
As for Moonclear you can always volunteer to help in exchange to the admission
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Repsychle
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
7
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 12:53
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Quote:
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On 2009-02-04 10:22, EyalTov wrote:
High Expenses party – small scene = high admission price, (if the organizer want to break even)
High Expenses party – big scene = low admission price
Low Expenses party – small scene = low admission price, (but no people)
So let’s grow the scene together:)
As for Moonclear you can always volunteer to help in exchange to the admission
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Sounds about right...UNLESS... we break it down slightly different...
lets say theres an orgz crew thats for the past 4-5 years has been throwing parties in a location that barely costs them anything with the same deco artist(that barely costs them anything) and a headliner from abroad(airfare+accommodations)...
NOW lets think of a venue like club exit for example... club exit (in brooklyn)can be rented for about $1500 (in some cases its for less), sound is included, lights(black lights)can be rented from about $50-150, deco would cost about 150 especially since your using the same deco artist for past few years (no disrespect towards the artist) with a few exceptions here and there, promotion wouldn't cost u much cause it would be the ideal thing for your crew to promote in order to save you some money...the artist cost ranges from 0-1500 depending on the artist and the deal you've made and what he/she is required to play ie(live/dj) in some cases if its a live and dj you get a neat deal...flights would range from 600-1000,worst case 1500 (depending on time of booking,country etc...)
to accommodate your artist would cost you roughly anywhere from 200-500+ (depending on how long your artist will be staying where etc...)employees ie door workers,set up and brake down crew etc etc...would be free most of the time because of your crew + people volunteering in exchange for admission,to print 5000 flyers would cost you from $99-$250...(depending on size and quality of flyer)... so with this information in mind let us do some new equations for a moment...
venue(exit) - $1500 (sound included)
lights - $150
deco - $150
printing - $150-$250 (for 5,000 flyers)
artist - $0-1500
flight - $600-1000
accommodations - $200-500+ ..
promotion - free
employees - free (all the people who usually volunteer to help in exchange for admission...
=
roughly about $4,000 (give or take with a flight costing about 800 and paying 800 to the artist,and with flyers costing u 150)
NOW... lets say 250-300 people at $25-$30 gives u from $6,250 - $9,000...in this case the orgz are clearly profiting and feeding of the scene!!! enough to go an open some kinda business etc...!!!
Concerning festivals i don't want to say anything because i never had a hand in one...but to say that the costs for the orb festival were $120,000 is absurdity and the funniest thing i have heard in a while, a friend from the international circuit had told me that the line up costs of the boom festival are less than half of that amount!!!
just my 2 cents...
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vaxination
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
262
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 20:07
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well with outdoor festivals its more generally.
you got to figure venue fee, plus sound which is more than a club since its usually multiple systems over multiple days. though for a smaller outdoor if you find the right spot to have it that should be 2000 or less for both I would say. obviously if you get a huge wall of sound its going to set you back more.
then you need headliners for each day so the cost goes up there, usually you can fill in the rest of the programming with good regional and domestic acts and have one hell of a party.
I think it seems to me that club parties in a well established area like new york, go off well and actually profit or at least break, but in the midwest, the turnout numbers are small and the amount kids are willing to pay isnt that much so it limits the options we have there. Outdoor festivals generally cost more depending on how established the venue is and what not, all the little extra fees add up!
still.. I love open air festivals so for me, thats the ideal place to hear trance. clubs are fun but its a way different vibe. I would hope that the orgs in ny that do shows like that at clubs take the say 2-5 grand in profit and save it to use as capital for summer open air parties or pour it back into the scene by getting new deco and more lighting and what not..
I end up putting it all back into parties when I do make anything. I dunno about everyone else
I'm just waiting to meet a trancer with a ton of land in the middle of nowhere that is all about throwing a festival!
 .:.vaxination.:.
vaxination@gmail.com
esoteric generation/beatnik productions |
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vaxination
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
262
Posted : Feb 4, 2009 20:11
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I would bet boom gets artists cheap because everyone wants to play boom, its one of the biggest festivals in the world is it not?
I'm sure the overhead is probably quite large though for everything else they do there.. I mean they erect huge stages with tons of spandex and crazy deco and they have the infrastructure to support all those people, I'm sure it takes alot of work and planning to make it go off proper
.:.vaxination.:.
vaxination@gmail.com
esoteric generation/beatnik productions |
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NeuroNympho
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
276
Posted : Feb 5, 2009 06:56
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Oooo! I like this thread! I almost feel like it gives the organization newbies with good intentions who just want to throw a mind blowing party, the A,B,Z's on how to put together a kick ass event. Do go on.....
"It's ALL about the clickety-clack!!!!"-Neuronympho |
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EyalTov
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
12
Posted : Feb 5, 2009 09:51
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For Repsychle:
I didn’t post here in order to argue about specific costs and numbers,
my focus is: “let’s grow the scene together”, there's allot we can share to make the trance scene in NY better and I think it would be worth your while as a new production team to consider this and not waste this forum's time targeting other organizers in order to create a bad reputation and bad vibe in the scene, which is beneficial to no one.
as general information the cost of production entails allot more than what you hypothetically quoted. experience will eventually show you that the profit margin is very unpredictable, and the reality is that the love for the music and the good vibes that the parties bring is what sustains us and keeps us going.
Of course there's nothing wrong in making money from parties,
Unfortunately it doesn’t happened. When that day comes I’ll probably quit my day job 
All in all, in order to 'grow our scene' the organizers need to support and compliment each other, and not look on one another as competition. Maybe even throw a party together once in a while!
and when the day will come and the number of attendance in the parties will be 700-2000 people the admission price will be much lower then $25 $30
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Repsychle
Started Topics :
1
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7
Posted : Feb 5, 2009 18:46
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From Repsychle:
would love to throw a party together, but with some good, decent people, not fake posers who hide behind their shanti shanti masks!!!
As most of us remember the scene here in new york(& east coast) was quite bigger...with up to 600-1500 attendants, the scene was growing...until some "organizers" came into the picture and kind of destroyed it...and reached a point where no other orgz/crew wants to work with them...
nothing to compete over,we just wanna throw some awesome parties!!!
We have nothing but love and respect to all of you and especially anyone who promotes the music and the culture and vibe in this concrete jungle & the world over, and were not here to compete with anyone...
we just have some slightly different ideals...
Infinite Love IS The Only Truth, Everything Else IS Illusion!!!
Infinite Love & Freedom to all... |
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FattyAcid
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
531
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 07:06
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"shanti shanti masks?"?
Froley
Wake walking through your sleep dream
Esoteric Generation (Arkansas)/Beatnik Production(AR)/ Three Way Mirrors (West Coast) |
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konflux
Konflux
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
811
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 08:02
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EyalTov
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
12
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 08:24
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Quote:
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On 2009-02-05 18:46, Repsychle wrote:
not fake posers who hide behind their shanti shanti masks!!!
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you continue with the negativity.
this is getting tedious i wish you all the best.
Love and Light |
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vaxination
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
262
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 08:34
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 shanti! shanti!
.:.vaxination.:.
vaxination@gmail.com
esoteric generation/beatnik productions |
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FattyAcid
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
531
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 08:54
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watch out for the dreaded dreaded quasi-hindi propagandists and their ever-so dangerous hand clasping dancing
shit ruins a party
::uuhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmnmm......plop::
ahhh
Wake walking through your sleep dream
Esoteric Generation (Arkansas)/Beatnik Production(AR)/ Three Way Mirrors (West Coast) |
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CRIS
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
17
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 09:45
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BrainLizzard
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
779
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 15:04
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Whats so negative about Repsychle saying "not fake posers who hide behind their shanti shanti masks"? Turning the shoulder and throwing hippie love doesn't fix an issue that may be true. Its just like politics, if you say your shanti then your asking people to look at you and investigate. Look at religion, try talking Shiva with Bible thumps , they have something to throw back at cha to get your eye off the candy. You know, like change the subject. Maybe Repsychle has noticed something we haven't. Maybe wolf is being cried. What type of family vibration are we seeking? Can conditioned thoughts hold back liberation? Is there something wrong with looking to see if their negative idea from our perception is valid first by looking into it? if so, Why? Strengthening the psychic family values isn't so negative, "psychic spies" are no joke. I'm holding my nose right now, I can't bare my smell.
Didn't Rave scenes crash hard because of two problems? Did some organizers and the artist both rape everyone while hiding behind their shanti mask? Some larger scenes received rave laws. Why would the trance World be any different? In most cases, if they are called out, no one will care. Someone will get booked we all like and people given gifts so good standing is held by respected peeps.
It seems such an unhappy route.
Isn't the Earth still in the Galactic Night(dark)and will reach the Light hence 2012? If the shit isn't together, will it effect us?
It all most feels like 2012 is just another scam to be slaves into a belief system that will be patrolled. Isn't belief when someone else does the thinking?
Quote:
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On 2009-02-05 09:51, EyalTov wrote:
All in all, in order to 'grow our scene' the organizers need to support and compliment each other, and not look on one another as competition. Maybe even throw a party together once in a while!
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Now, that is an awesome idea and there are multiple crew projects exercising that thought.
There are crews that take on volunteers to help in exchange for the admission and then get burned, even some crew members don't support. Boom makes some volunteers pay, once their duties have been met. Then a refund is given. This may not help Moonclear's issue. Some have caps on volunteers, simply because of funding or over booked in the help department. Even crews hire outside help so they can reduce the budget, seems odd and works unfortunately but not to much family vibe at the root structure. It was a choice made, turn your shoulder and pretend its not your problem.
What is a fair days pay for a fair days work?
Some people look at the gate price, say $100 and assume there is plenty of money. Some Design artist charge twice for the same artwork or charge non profit groups like EarthDance and such.
I'm not to sure how much free time and devotion you have but here's an idea Moonclear that makes happy thoughts :
If you can gather up 150 people who are willing to donate $100 and one hour on work crew duties,if need. They will have free entry to the event and what nots that come from being an investing crew member. I can point you to a party that will be several days long with the first 100 presales free and pay for your personal travels. I can't read the rest of this business card, I found this information on the ground back in the eighties, so its faded over the years. Anyway, that's just for starts, there's more... Is there anything easier done than said?
Just think about it and I'll see if I can find the website if you like. I think its on some 80's pop band talk forum.
Now, that found card qualifies for the Trick of Light sniffers....
Have you seen this message online before : (WE CAN CONTACT YOU - WE ARE YOUR FUTURE MIND)?
I remember this Gabber track that kept saying " its in the machine,its in the machine,its in the machine,its in the machine", then a build up and a new octave saying " its in the machine,its in the machine,its in the machine,its in the machine" and the tempo kept getting faster like it was racing how slow it kept saying it and then it kept saying it faster when it was getting even slower than how fast it was getting.
"If You Always Think What You've Always Thought, You Will Always Feel What You've Always Felt" |
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Liquid-Vision
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
660
Posted : Feb 6, 2009 17:28
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Quote:
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On 2009-02-04 10:22, EyalTov wrote:
To my opinion determine the admission price for parties/festivals is based on two main factors:
1. Total cost of the event, including promotion, line up, flights, accommodation, venue, deco, equipment rentals (lights, sound) time, printing, employees and more
2. Estimated number of attendance
Unfortunately our scene is small. but we still want to see the best artists performing live acts with the best sound, best deco and killer venue.
That’s bring us to the following equations
High Expenses party – small scene = high admission price, (if the organizer want to break even)
High Expenses party – big scene = low admission price
Low Expenses party – small scene = low admission price, (but no people)
So let’s grow the scene together:)
As for Moonclear you can always volunteer to help in exchange to the admission
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Quote:
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On 2009-02-05 09:51, EyalTov wrote:
For Repsychle:
I didn’t post here in order to argue about specific costs and numbers,
my focus is: “let’s grow the scene together”, there's allot we can share to make the trance scene in NY better and I think it would be worth your while as a new production team to consider this and not waste this forum's time targeting other organizers in order to create a bad reputation and bad vibe in the scene, which is beneficial to no one.
as general information the cost of production entails allot more than what you hypothetically quoted. experience will eventually show you that the profit margin is very unpredictable, and the reality is that the love for the music and the good vibes that the parties bring is what sustains us and keeps us going.
Of course there's nothing wrong in making money from parties,
Unfortunately it doesn’t happened. When that day comes I’ll probably quit my day job
All in all, in order to 'grow our scene' the organizers need to support and compliment each other, and not look on one another as competition. Maybe even throw a party together once in a while!
and when the day will come and the number of attendance in the parties will be 700-2000 people the admission price will be much lower then $25 $30
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Wow, your English really improved from the first post to the next! Could it be someone else wrote it for you?
Nah, only a fake cutthroat poser would have someone else write their personal forum messages for them....
We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love... and then we return home. |
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pleaseeeee