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the cosmic octave and mathematics
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Jun 26, 2009 15:24
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About Cymatics:
The patterns you see depend on both the sound source, on the surface being used, and on what is placed on that surface; a different surface (eg. circular instead of square) will give a totally different pattern, even with an identical sound source. For the same reasons, when viewing resonances in liquids, the patterns observed are dependant on the shape of the container rather than on the liquid inside it.
What does this mean?
It means that everyone exploring how vibration and music and sound affects them will get different results, even with the same music. It means that the only search that will not mislead the searcher and take them further away from finding what works for them and how it works is a search based purely on their own experience. Trying to reproduce anyone else's results is futile.
Moki:
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...my objective perception of reality... |
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None of us have an 'objective perception' of reality; such a thing is not possible. Instead we use our senses and our brains which present reality to us according to our beliefs 
  Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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779
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 15:35
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hmmm, now that is quite interesting.
The use of 'my' implies an implicit ownership of the statement though - and an inherent understanding of its subjectiveness.
(I am just playing here - this is totally disconnected and ties into my childish infatuation with words)
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
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5380
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 15:36
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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Posts :
1931
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 18:49
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hi colin,
long time no see.
thanks for your post on the subject of cymatics.
about the second part - btw this sentence that you quote was irony. i also believe that there is no objective reality but i am making the experience all the time in internet forums, that people are trying to tell my about a kind of objective reality that i have to accept. BECAUSE THE MAJORITY DOES. it is impossible because all reality is subjective in my opinion. so you are right, the right word was not objective reality but a consensual reality. but this is another philosophical issue and is off topic here. sweet to see you here though, i hope you are gonna post contrary arguments only on the issue of discussion. thanks a lot for this.
as i said i come from a quite disastrous discussion on goabase where they are writing that they are the only ones who are "powerful to speak german" and to understand what is an octave ( which is not even a german word). i am tired of this kiddy attitude, so tired that no one here can imagine.
guys if you need to bust agressions on someone, do it in private messages please. i am here for the discussion on sound.
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okey.
1. do you have the results of any such experiment that showed that cymatics will have different structure according to the person who makes the experiment? i only know that the results are similar in similar frequency ranges. the higher the frequency - the more complicated the structure.
2. if it is so, as you say, which i am quite likely to accept, then it has to mean something in connection to quantum theory. if we check the photon emission in the person, we could have statistic scientific data about what is the role of the experimentator.
3. and still - imagine. just imagine that we move to a time when we will be healed at festivals through the right sound and the right pitch. i know many here will say that festivals and parties are an issue of just having fun. may be you are righ, i am bit too old for such stuff , so i would love to experiment with the right healing frequencies.
@Speakafreaka - okey, i will try to look for an accepted and scientifically credited experiment that shows that the frequencies have a healing effect. but i know a few case of study already. for instance, as i said, with the pineal gland and the morphogenetic frequency . but i will see what i can do.
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
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5380
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 20:01
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Quote:
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On 2009-06-26 18:49, Moki.Time.Wave.Zero wrote:
about the second part - btw this sentence that you quote was irony. i also believe that there is no objective reality but i am making the experience all the time in internet forums, that people are trying to tell my about a kind of objective reality that i have to accept. BECAUSE THE MAJORITY DOES. it is impossible because all reality is subjective in my opinion. so you are right, the right word was not objective reality but a consensual reality. but this is another philosophical issue and is off topic here. sweet to see you here though, i hope you are gonna post contrary arguments only on the issue of discussion. |
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Please accept my apologies for replying to what you wrote, rather than what you now say you actually meant.
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| It means that everyone exploring how vibration and music and sound affects them will get different results, |
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okey.
1. do you have the results of any such experiment that showed that cymatics will have different structure according to the person who makes the experiment? i only know that the results are similar in similar frequency ranges. the higher the frequency - the more complicated the structure.
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I was talking about the application the principles of cymatics to more complex structures such as the human body. The patterns and resonances you get with cymatics vary according to the shape of the plate used and this will be incredibly magnified when applied to the human body and psyche which are many orders of magnitude more complex. Generalisations are simply impossible, which is why I said that any study of this has to be done on an individual level.
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| 3. and still - imagine. just imagine that we move to a time when we will be healed at festivals through the right sound and the right pitch. i know many here will say that festivals and parties are an issue of just having fun. may be you are righ, i am bit too old for such stuff , so i would love to experiment with the right healing frequencies. |
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People already find healing at festivals through music; we don't need another 'theory' IMO.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 20:14
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| we don't need another 'theory' IMO. |
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i understand your concerns darling but is this not an off topic? if you want do be on topic, you just say WHY it is not possible to heal with certain sounds or whatever. i dont see this quote above as an argument, which i or anyone else here can use for further studying of the matter. if someone doesnt need another theory, he leaves the topic i guess:).
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| I was talking about the application the principles of cymatics to more complex structures such as the human body. The patterns and resonances you get with cymatics vary according to the shape of the plate used and this will be incredibly magnified when applied to the human body and psyche which are many orders of magnitude more complex. Generalisations are simply impossible, which is why I said that any study of this has to be done on an individual level. |
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yes, but then you can say this about almost any scientific field - it is a simplified model of reality which is assumed to be " right" ( you know, we all have the same consensual value for a gravity constant or for the speed of light).
besides, why do you think that the ancient people who were studying harmonics of sound and nature, divided the human body into five or six parts - see the human body within a pentagram from the ancient schools of knowledge ( pythogoras). why is a fifth so important? why do other cultures have totally different intervals, shrutis, or whatever they have? is it important to know them as a musician?? what is the different thing between those theories?
i have another question, just a second to post a table
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
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1397
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 20:18
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it will take ages to explain that to you sorry |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 20:54
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if you feel like that, then there is probably nothing to explain. or to help me out. may be it will not take too much if you had anything to expain at all.
the question :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament
you see the table at the bottom. you see the mathematics. can you tell me what would happen with the cents if we would divide an " octave" into five parts instead of 12. ?
oh and another thing i forgot.
so, you people dont accept scientific experiments ( even if they did not make it to the official institutions of credited science), which are made by educated people and you say, that it is not proven. but it is proven, that the people at the trance festivals are being healed through music.
i mean come on!! who is getting healed? i dont. the people who i notice dont either. they are having fun and after that they are just very satisfied to say that the fun was a kind of a sacred healing experience. bullshit. it was nothing like that. these are just the standard demagoguery of the trance movement which has become unbearably ridiculous. getting healed.
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 20:58
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 20:59
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Quote:
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On 2009-06-26 20:14, Moki.Time.Wave.Zero wrote:
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| we don't need another 'theory' IMO. |
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i understand your concerns darling but is this not an off topic? if you want do be on topic, you just say WHY it is not possible to heal with certain sounds or whatever. i dont see this quote above as an argument, which i or anyone else here can use for further studying of the matter. if someone doesnt need another theory, he leaves the topic i guess:).
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I don't like this at all.
It isn't up to you to decide what is or is not on topic IMO.
It seems to me that discussion of whether the topic is valid or not is emphatically and unavoidably ON topic.
As to why it isn't possible ... sorry but the burden of proof is on your side of the coin, as it has not to been proved that it is.
Would you care to disprove the the core of mars is made of green cheese? Anyone can say anything. It isn't up to the opposing party to disprove, its up to the promoting party to prove, verifiably.
If you wish to talk about the maths and science of it all, then it is perfectly reasonable to ask you to be scientific about it, otherwise, what on earth is the point?
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
1848
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 21:38
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Speakafreaka, have you ever read a book by Carl Sagan called "A Demon Haunted World"? It changed a lot in the way I view things. I like your mentality and I think you'd enjoy this book... both your and the book's opinions are very synchronous. I recommend it if you haven't already read it.
Actually, lots of people should read this book.
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 21:44
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Quote:
| If you wish to talk about the maths and science of it all, then it is perfectly reasonable to ask you to be scientific about it, otherwise, what on earth is the point? |
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sure mate, completely agree. i am still looking for the link that you demanded. i still dont find anything officially credited by science. btw i was talking to colin right now:). dont know why you feel personally offended:). i say off topic as a polite asking to stay on the figures:). sure anyone can write anything he wants, i am not the one responsible to chose here you know. dont be so much in defending modus bro, i am just trying to find out something here.
once more the question
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament
you see the table at the bottom. you see the mathematics. can you tell me what would happen with the cents if we would divide an " octave" into five parts instead of 12. ?
disco hooligans:if this is spiritual for you then you have to update your categories for consensual reality.
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 21:50
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On 2009-06-26 21:44, Moki.Time.Wave.Zero wrote:
disco hooligans:if this is spiritual for you then you have to update your categories for consensual reality.
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its not spiritual, I was just using a more polite word, for "load of bollocks".
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 21:53
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament
you see the table at the bottom. you see the mathematics. can you tell me what would happen with the cents if we would divide an " octave" into five parts instead of 12. ?
i want to find the golden means
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 21:57
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in theory you are all absolutely right |
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