-=Mandari=-
Mandari
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
655
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 12:12
Quote:
On 2009-06-26 00:43, Moki.Time.Wave.Zero wrote:
Quote:
but its not needed to tune your whole music to any healing frequency, cause any harmonic music will work the same.
yes, first of all, thanks for your post, it was a pleasure to read:)
many insightful thoughts in there.
but my logic fails only at the end of this sentence. do you believe that any harmonic music will do the same?
as any natural form of material substance, also the frequency is inclined to follow the golden means. it works as the most effective proportion to induce harmonics on a wider level...
well it is nice to see you here and to read that you are one of the few who have made their experience with that.
i was going to put a few links about cymatics and the phenomena of sound structures but i thought that i will ask you first about this one
Quote:
dont get me wrong, but any profession out there is working on your so called alchemical based mathematics long time ago people like kepler developed
what do you mean with that my dear ? are you sure that people are following the theories of kepler in their full form...?
i dont think that all professions are based on alchemical mathematics. even only because of the golden means.
as we see in the phenomena of cymatics:
here you can see some images and a video http://www.cymatics.org/ here wikipedia about cymatics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymatics
sound vibrates in lots of different harmonical structures. and it is essential which one you choose.
you see, i dont say that it is the better one. i say it is a different one. and if it is really alchemical according to the basics of sacred geometry , and tuned with this proportion, then it induces a harmonical structure in our bodies and brain, which might probably be quite more effective in terms of feeling better and being in tune with the macrocosm outside of us. cause you know, kepler said quite a lot of things about how the space in the macrocosm is built...
ou yes, of course i dont believe that no one cares here about it. just provoking to come faster to what i want. otherwise i would not ask here. but you know, i am also only looking for an answer so i am a seeker and not someone who wants to give the ultimate answer. and i am sure that even the scientifical prove about the phenomena would not be enough if people dont want to see that geometry itself is sacred. ( and btw i feel so uncool to say this in isratrance but i have to mention the proportions of the issue) is it possible that the golden mean series and the right mathematical proportion can induce a more effective way of experiencing music??? or is it all same???
and then notice structures of the sound. vibrating. full harmonics.
before it´s getting like last time, please try to get the point.
i know what kepler said and he just repeated very old stuff, no one knows where this knowledge appeared first.
at first, all scale and octaves and stuff we know in music follows the golden mean. so anyway if u know about chords and scales , circle of fifth´s and all that stuff, u work natural based. it´s just like that, no need to tune to the PERFECT. but sure the effect would be kinda more intense. so the difference is only in the tuning, cause sure each single note has its exact feq. this freq, differes from the 440hz tone we use since few hundred years, just to have a tuning freq. to tune all instruments of an orchestra. but as u know this freq, has nothing to do with the natural frequencies of the tones itself. so whenever u wanna work on any frequency u just have to figure out the difference to chamber pitch A 440hz to use the freq. on your decided chamber pitch. the root note of your track.
BUT this root note is still natural based and fits the concept of the golden mean. even if it can not be applied to a frequency of the planets or anything. maybe you will find some time exactly this note in nature, anywhere as sound and frequency structure of a unknown banana anywhere in the bushes. the cosmic octave is no other octave we all know, so yes. we´re all working pretty near to that concept, cause theres no other way.
ever questionate why people dance, when they hear their dedicated music? ever asked yourself why your hair stands up and evrythings in your brain is sizzlin while you hear a sound? it´s pretty simple, cause the brain is reminded to something which is triggered by frequency.
so its the basic knowledge about circle of fifths ie that shows anybody out there usin that stuff like what is an octave and what is the circle of fifth is working by the rules of the golden mean.
its early in the morning had no coffee until now, find pretty hard to describe better now and my english´s not the best at all. feel free to contact me pm or myspace, we´re already friends there i´m german, so maybe we can have some better discussion there.
i really try my best to get the point of what geomatrics has to do with it. i mean i know it, but i think for the rest of the people here not envolved into occult stuff like the sacred geometry (and yes it is occult stuff, cause u will only find in occult scriptings or again esotheric stuff=D) anyway, if we go that right u have to mention that everything humans are able to perceive follows the golden mean and the sacred geometry, whereby there´s no difference except the geometry includes the golden mean.
i still cant get your question. cause any question about music and how it is applied is explained very well on the planetware site and also well explained by cousto and barnim. so where´s your problem, what exactly?
we dont have to talk about sacred geometry, cause there are manymany "sacred" called things out there. what i meant last message was that its not neccessary to an artist to know all hat stuff, to do good music.
and yess, i say it´s working pretty the same this way, without tuning perfect. cause it´s the soul healing the body not the music. the music is just something like an impulse. the reason why i compared it with accupuncture so its the same with freq. cause all we perceive is just frequency......
another story is about resonance and how things vibrate their own, and here maybe lies your answer.
i think this should be discussed anywhere else than in the music production site, cause at the end it has nothing to do with it. we´re discussing sound therapy here and no music production.....
anyway i was one of the people defending your opinion last time, cause sure it´s important to tune your track and know about scales and chords. but thats it. no need to tune to a special frequency. at the end i know a track will have a special result and will act special if it´s tuned maybe to the frequency of the earth. cause we all perceive it as exactly this even without being aware of it. cause we will resonate to it, even if we dont know or want.
and this is the only important. to know what releases your imagination or emotion best. and this is done by chords and scales and sure by frequecies.
i will not gve any examples here, but tuned or not, there any chord is resulting in a special harm frequency, which is very near to the frequency of maybe a planet. so with the tones of the octave. they all are pretty near to the tones of the planets we know. or in harmonic scale to them..... so again yes, many out there use this stuff, without even knowing about the story behind.
im myself intereted in occultism and shamanism for manymany years now and long time before i started doin music. so i was interested in everything, not oonly chords and scales. but i had to accept that this is not the usual and most people i wanna talk about music some more than just music, most cancel the discussion. anyway i found myself that many of them really work nearly the same without knowing all that spiritual stuff.
and again i have to say its not needed. cause an artist is an ventile and uses music to communicate, as frequency is the only we all perceive and understand without any question. it´s not about frequencies and tuning my dear, its about resonance, believe me. and as long the people resonate to something harmonic or even not, it is about sharing emotions and help the people bringing up theirselves to a higher level of consciousness. through music and through dance. at the end the listener decides what he/she like/dislike. u only can try to steer it by knowing what u do.
it will always be that one half is musician, the other half shamans. IMO.... i found many people calling themselves shamanics without knowing about resonance stuff and frequency. also i found many musicians, doin great music, without even knowing one scale. but means not there is nothing else. i´m not the only one believing in weired audio manipulation stuff, but this is only because i was interested in all this other stuff before.
anyway, getting kind of a novel here. and i cant describe that all in good english so that all can follow. dont mind if i maybe not answer anymore here. IMO no music production discussion, or has much to do with stuff that is no music production stuff.....
and much needed to know, to get all of this. maybe u dont either
*°oO(boOM)Oo°*
Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 12:26
Right so, nothing peer reviewed eh?
Lets take a closer look.
Firstly, Sonocytology talks of cells themself resonating at certain freqs - that is hardly the same thing as suggesting that playing music at that freq has any kind of healing effect. At best its diagnostic. Note
Quote:
Distinguishing between the sound signatures of healthy and diseased cells may be a part of the medicine of the future.
Diagnostic.
so then we take a fairly massive jump to
Quote:
When supplied with a dose of the needed energetic frequency, it allows the cellular bioenergetic systems to resonate in the proper vibrational mode, thereby throwing off the toxicities of the illness.
Where is the peer reviewed research that this is true? How has it been inferred that playing a freq at a cell makes a cell healthier?
But, surprise surprise, you are now quoting from a site which has a vested fiscal interest in making the reader believe in the veracity of its claims.
Then, following your last quote, which is in itself a quote, we end up a company which quite freely an openly says
Quote:
We are a Health Education Company with a Special Interest in Electricity for Health.
You haven't provided accreditation from a peer reviewed study. I'd argue you haven't presented any actual evidence at all even. You've presented the opinion of a lot of people with a vested interest - but that isn't the same thing at all
.
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka
roigt0r
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
83
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 12:38
I have a friend who took too much acid and didn't handle it that well.
You remind me of him.
Edit: I'm referring to Moki.
-=Mandari=-
Mandari
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
655
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 12:38
yes agree,
i know these links and found them myself interesting but not very trustful. posting them here is not really defending your opinion.... and sure this has much to do with finacial interests.
and im really myself pretty careful with hasty opinions...IMO lol
-=Mandari=-
Mandari
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
655
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 12:42
@ roigt0r: anyway we should keep cool and factual.
too much acid has nothin to do with this here i think and anything too much is difficult to handle, thats why we say TOO MUCH
lets have a listen to your sound and we can talk about the resonance after ......
Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 12:45
^totally
the musical side of it is interesting - genuinely.
I view it as impractical outside of MIDI land, but it is still very interesting, and practical within MIDI land.
the salt is changing its shape but salt and humans are different
and dissonant sounds are just as important as consonant
moki learn learn learn
there is no 100% and always more than one side on the coin
great video brother !!!! now i think most people here will see some forms in there, which they maybe have seen in nature before.
all forms seen here follow the sacred geometry we´re talking about, and this is only one way to make it watchable.
and you´re right my friend harmonics are same important than disharmonics. cause this is the way nature really goes. the fractal way, the ordered chaotic way. pretty nice to see here. everything we know, perceive or not perceive is based on geometry, fractal algorithms and mathematics. so with sound and music.
*°oO(boOM)Oo°*
moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 14:15
but the problem is, that i dont come here with a scientifical prove and with the next theory to win a nobel award. if i had those answers, i would not ask further questions here.
i dont discuss in other types of forums because i am very particularly interested in the subject of the golden means in the music in terms of numbers. besides i am not here to review the issue of shamanism and music healing - i am here to update my knowledge about music. well, we are all different individuals here and i hope i dont get discriminated because of my "believes" and the fact is that i cant say even one word about mathematics and music wothout thinking about the bigger picture of the universe we are born into.
Quote:
the salt is changing its shape but salt and humans are different
and dissonant sounds are just as important as consonant
btw most important: water is changing by sound too exactly as sand and salt, even much more effective, as you probably already know. and we ourselves ( our bodies) are mostly water too, so it is quite logical that the water in our bodies changes its structure by hearing music too. the geometrical patterns in the water inside of us are changing according to the patterns in the music. i want to find out the right patterns for my body.
Quote:
You haven't provided accreditation from a peer reviewed study. I'd argue you haven't presented any actual evidence at all even
first of all, i would like to ask you, how does a peer review of research look like? (how do you translate that:) do i have to post books and references here? i am on a freindly basis and i am posting you the first accident link that i was reading.
what is it that you want to hear? i gave you the names of the scientists and what they found out. there is no scientifical evidence that the pentatonic scale is working in a different way on the brain. at least i dont know any and if i did, i would probably go to a scientifical congress to present it , instead of looking for further answers in music creation forums.
Quote:
think this should be discussed anywhere else than in the music production site, cause at the end it has nothing to do with it. we´re discussing sound therapy here and no music production.....
i dont think so, because i need to hear from people involved with music and science, what they think about the pentatonic scale and what do they know about the intervals in the ancient music theory of orpheus. the other side of the coin, the occult side, is already quite familiar to me but i am interested in the scientifical approach. is it not scientifical enough to measure the frequency that a membrane of the cell has and the test how this frequency reacts on different harmonics. is it not scientifical to demolish cancer by playing music to the patient?
Quote:
the cosmic octave is no other octave we all know, so yes. we´re all working pretty near to that concept, cause theres no other way
what if the cosmic octave as a theory is a little bit older than you can imagine and did not came from hans cousto but much earlier from orpheus. i just say that this subject about orpheus is not enough researched. i searched a lot about it on the internet on three different languages other than mine, i searched for weeks.., and i did not find even the slightest explanation of what the pentatonics really were in the ancient world. it is being simplified into a model of five points within a scale. but as i have the luck to speak a mother language and to belong to the cultural tradition where orpheus and the pentatonics came from, i happened to have read some sources of information (books) that showed me incredible mathematical facts about the ancient octave of orpheus. what if it is THE golden means in the music? what if it is THE theory to bring together as well einstein, as the quantum physics, as well as the attractors in the chaos theory.
and btw as i said a few times, i am a seeker. this is why i dont care so much about critics like that - it is not clear even to me what are the exact effects on the body, the cell and the brain. i am trying to found out and btw i try mostly with empiric. with experiments.
but i suggest, that it is not " same" what frequency you choose for the cosmic octave. and it is not same which octave you take. like it is not same if you are in the 32. octave and the 45. octave f the earth year. octaves can be audible or visible...
and it is not same which geometrical structure a cymatic experiment with sand will have. i suggest that there are differences. exactly like that there are differences in the molecular quantum lsd-music of akasha project or the sound of the water molecules or whatever other thing. it has a different effect.
now. people, i dont really know why anyone has to have an interest in a topic that doesn say anything to you. okey, i am not at home here, and the mods can show me any time the door. and i will go through it, if they do. but i will try to put the topic on discussion anyway, because i am interested to get the point what is exactly the golden means of music. i have different theories in my knowledge base folders.
i dont have any problems with these discussions because i dont feel like i were in the role of the persuader. i know i might be wrong with absolutely everything i perceive. this is why at the end of such discussions lots of other ppl have problem, but me not at all. i am happy to correct mistakes in my objective perception of reality.
and my objective perception of reality tells me that it is essential which structure you choose. it is like chemistry and the basic model of the smalles particles. if you take other elements, you come to totally different manifestation of material substance.
now, the only thing i am not interested in, are the off topic conversations about fucked up brains like i had them from dozens of ppl in goabase. hope here will not come the threatening for violence on me just because i am having a different idea. what is the problem to just move to another topic if this one does not say anything to you my friends?:)
the biggest question right now is mathematics itself. and i do think that many people here have evolved to think about mathematics as patterns which can be found anywhere in the nature. absolutely anywhere. so you find out very fast about the meaning of the shumann resonance - the electromagnetic resonance of the earth. frequency : 7,8 hz. it is the same as the one in our bodies and dna. measured in scientifical research. why do so many things in the known universe have to have the same frequency and be perfectly embedded in one another? the answer is very simple to me: because the world itself is nothing other than a resonance - so you einther resonate or you dissonate. i want to resonate. i suggest that it is better for my body, emotions, mind and soul.
moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 14:17
Quote:
great video brother !!!! now i think most people here will see some forms in there, which they maybe have seen in nature before.
so you actually did not even click on my link above about what is cymatics:)
-=Mandari=-
Mandari
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
655
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 14:34
Quote:
On 2009-06-26 14:15, Moki.Time.Wave.Zero wrote:
but the problem is, that i dont come here with a scientifical prove and with the next theory to win a nobel award. if i had those answers, i would not ask further questions here.
i dont discuss in other types of forums because i am very particularly interested in the subject of the golden means in the music in terms of numbers. besides i am not here to review the issue of shamanism and music healing - i am here to update my knowledge about music. well, we are all different individuals here and i hope i dont get discriminated because of my "believes" and the fact is that i cant say even one word about mathematics and music wothout thinking about the bigger picture of the universe we are born into.
Quote:
the salt is changing its shape but salt and humans are different
and dissonant sounds are just as important as consonant
btw most important: water is changing by sound too exactly as sand and salt, even much more effective, as you probably already know. and we ourselves ( our bodies) are mostly water too, so it is quite logical that the water in our bodies changes its structure by hearing music too. the geometrical patterns in the water inside of us are changing according to the patterns in the music. i want to find out the right patterns for my body.
Quote:
You haven't provided accreditation from a peer reviewed study. I'd argue you haven't presented any actual evidence at all even
first of all, i would like to ask you, how does a peer review of research look like? (how do you translate that:) do i have to post books and references here? i am on a freindly basis and i am posting you the first accident link that i was reading.
what is it that you want to hear? i gave you the names of the scientists and what they found out. there is no scientifical evidence that the pentatonic scale is working in a different way on the brain. at least i dont know any and if i did, i would probably go to a scientifical congress to present it , instead of looking for further answers in music creation forums.
Quote:
think this should be discussed anywhere else than in the music production site, cause at the end it has nothing to do with it. we´re discussing sound therapy here and no music production.....
i dont think so, because i need to hear from people involved with music and science, what they think about the pentatonic scale and what do they know about the intervals in the ancient music theory of orpheus. the other side of the coin, the occult side, is already quite familiar to me but i am interested in the scientifical approach. is it not scientifical enough to measure the frequency that a membrane of the cell has and the test how this frequency reacts on different harmonics. is it not scientifical to demolish cancer by playing music to the patient?
Quote:
the cosmic octave is no other octave we all know, so yes. we´re all working pretty near to that concept, cause theres no other way
what if the cosmic octave as a theory is a little bit older than you can imagine and did not came from hans cousto but much earlier from orpheus. i just say that this subject about orpheus is not enough researched. i searched a lot about it on the internet on three different languages other than mine, i searched for weeks.., and i did not find even the slightest explanation of what the pentatonics really were in the ancient world. it is being simplified into a model of five points within a scale. but as i have the luck to speak a mother language and to belong to the cultural tradition where orpheus and the pentatonics came from, i happened to have read some sources of information (books) that showed me incredible mathematical facts about the ancient octave of orpheus. what if it is THE golden means in the music? what if it is THE theory to bring together as well einstein, as the quantum physics, as well as the attractors in the chaos theory.
and btw as i said a few times, i am a seeker. this is why i dont care so much about critics like that - it is not clear even to me what are the exact effects on the body, the cell and the brain. i am trying to found out and btw i try mostly with empiric. with experiments.
but i suggest, that it is not " same" what frequency you choose for the cosmic octave. and it is not same which octave you take. like it is not same if you are in the 32. octave and the 45. octave f the earth year. octaves can be audible or visible...
and it is not same which geometrical structure a cymatic experiment with sand will have. i suggest that there are differences. exactly like that there are differences in the molecular quantum lsd-music of akasha project or the sound of the water molecules or whatever other thing. it has a different effect.
now. people, i dont really know why anyone has to have an interest in a topic that doesn say anything to you. okey, i am not at home here, and the mods can show me any time the door. and i will go through it, if they do. but i will try to put the topic on discussion anyway, because i am interested to get the point what is exactly the golden means of music. i have different theories in my knowledge base folders.
i dont have any problems with these discussions because i dont feel like i were in the role of the persuader. i know i might be wrong with absolutely everything i perceive. this is why at the end of such discussions lots of other ppl have problem, but me not at all. i am happy to correct mistakes in my objective perception of reality.
and my objective perception of reality tells me that it is essential which structure you choose. it is like chemistry and the basic model of the smalles particles. if you take other elements, you come to totally different manifestation of material substance.
now, the only thing i am not interested in, are the off topic conversations about fucked up brains like i had them from dozens of ppl in goabase. hope here will not come the threatening for violence on me just because i am having a different idea. what is the problem to just move to another topic if this one does not say anything to you my friends?:)
the biggest question right now is mathematics itself. and i do think that many people here have evolved to think about mathematics as patterns which can be found anywhere in the nature. absolutely anywhere. so you find out very fast about the meaning of the shumann resonance - the electromagnetic resonance of the earth. frequency : 7,8 hz. it is the same as the one in our bodies and dna. measured in scientifical research. why do so many things in the known universe have to have the same frequency and be perfectly embedded in one another? the answer is very simple to me: because the world itself is nothing other than a resonance - so you einther resonate or you dissonate. i want to resonate. i suggest that it is better for my body, emotions, mind and soul.
ok, as i said this all is nothing new to me and seems more to me u didnt understand a lot of things. i never said cousto found the cosmic octave. i said its much older and also not found by kepler or orpheus.
anyway, this is kinda too much for me. i cant help u out there
cheers
Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Jun 26, 2009 14:40
Peer review is the process through which scientific work gains validity in many peoples eyes, in effect.
We obviously cannot all be experts in every single field of science.
So when someone does research and claims to have discovered something new, if they wish their work to be taken seriously, they will submit their work for peer review.
At this point, a board of experts in the field will examine the work, and raise any issues they find with the work.
Most importantly, these are people without a vested interest in a given outcome of the review.
So, I am asking you to provide me with a thesis on the 'healing' aspects sonocytology which has been confirmed by the above process.
In other words, a thesis which has achieved scientific credence.
I am not interested in what individuals, or even groups of scientists claim - I am interested in unbiased examination of their science.
I'm not a medical expert - I can't do this for myself, and that is why peer review is so important.
