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the cosmic octave and mathematics
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*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Jul 22, 2009 23:05
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_tuning ;
that was interesting read
"Because of the wolf interval, this tuning is rarely used nowadays, although it is thought to have been widespread. In music which does not change key very often, or which is not very harmonically adventurous, the wolf interval is unlikely to be a problem, as not all the possible fifths will be heard in such pieces."
^yes, like psytrance
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Gaiana
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
59
Posted : Jul 22, 2009 23:37
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On 2009-07-22 21:35, Zork wrote:
well..when i make chill im chilled anyway..and i feel no difference when i do it in a specific frequency of cosmic octave state actualy..or not..
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Well part of the whole issue in all this is exactly that..
IF we really are all being bombarded all the time by frequencies which are not in accordance with the natural intrinsic harmonic structure of the universe, then we have no way of knowing what is really harmonic, nor can we really trust our own gut feelings about it.
If we ourselves are not in harmony, how can we know what is harmonious just by trying to feel it.
In that case, i'd much rather trust in frequencies we find all around us within natural phenomenon, rather then a rather abitrarily chosen number like 440...
 www.myspace.com/gaiana_25 |
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*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Jul 23, 2009 00:09
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after reading 'Pythagorean tuning' stuff, i'm a bit confused.
Is it not simply a matter of changing the master global tuning on a synth to 432?
the piano roll on my DAW(FL) will still use 2:1 ratio for octave intervals. not so?
apparently i need to use 3:2 ratio
i do not have a strong music education but eager to learn.
on that wiki page it is said that the scale sounds smooth  i wanna give it a try
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jul 23, 2009 00:42
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*eLliSDee* - yeah lets solve this... im not good at math at all but i would like to learn more
here is a website about ratio and how to calculate them...
http://www.webmath.com/k8ratio.html
Maybe you can do an experiment...
C-tuner in perfect mode http://www.samplerchan.com/
and a synth that has the capabillity to tune to 432hz.. now play each note in the wiki explaination and see if they match...
i dont think it should be a problem, but its all confusing i dont know anything about this.. but i will give it some experiments some day =)
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-=Mandari=-
Mandari
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
655
Posted : Jul 23, 2009 14:42
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i just wanna mention that it has been said more than enough: everyone has to decide at his own!
secondly i never said it was the same scene 14 years ago, i just said it was the same issue. if u look at it as an evolutionary process as gaiana mentioned, i cant see any difference there. except the quantity. and thats nothing unusual.
zork is right and we both had many experiments on that and nights of heat discussions about that since u (moki) opened the thread last time as shamantrixx.
i do not totally agree his opinion but imo working with alpha/beta etc. waves seems to be more efficient. anyway i cant deny that it´s a huge difference to tune your stuff. its more roundish and seems to be more in perfect pitch. but this is mathematics and has nothin to do with this cosmic stuff. except you´re free to work only with these frequencies which means also working with only few different bpm. imo you´re just not free anymore. you´re not able to work on different things, not able to try around. it´s something perfect u try to reach. and u do just one mistake and even if u dont means not that u will feel anything.
i can only talk about the difference anyone or just i am able to hear. and this difference is not because of the cosmic wouhhh, its just because thhe track is more "in pitch"....my newbie opinion.
BUT i know from many different cultures knowing about the frequencies and their effect on the human body (just like with the moon). i can not deny that it is possible that certain frequencies effect even parts of the body.
in hebrew culture i.e. the thora explains the connections between letters, planets, colours, tones, parts of the human body, internal organs, external organs and so on.
for me its nothing i have to belive, it´s just something logic.
FUCK GENRES, LOVE MUSIC!!!!
http://soundcloud.com/mandarimedia
http://banyan-records.com |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Jul 26, 2009 18:20
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On 2009-07-23 00:09, *eLliSDee* wrote:
after reading 'Pythagorean tuning' stuff, i'm a bit confused.
Is it not simply a matter of changing the master global tuning on a synth to 432?
the piano roll on my DAW(FL) will still use 2:1 ratio for octave intervals. not so?
apparently i need to use 3:2 ratio
i do not have a strong music education but eager to learn.
on that wiki page it is said that the scale sounds smooth i wanna give it a try
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hey
i love ppl who wanna give it a try:)
you see, this ratio 1:2 for an octave is the most simple description for an octave and will always stay same. but the intervals within the octave will change. this 2:3 will make all the difference.
btw this with the pythagorean tuning link is a good example because of the nice graph. you can see very easily what is the difference between the octaves of pythagoras and the other ones used after that.
pity that no one read the 18 pages here- then yyou would know why i am so interested to divide the octave into five parts.
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Jul 26, 2009 18:26
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and actually it would be so nice if all those goabase idiots just look at this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Music_intervals_frequency_ratio_equal_tempered_pythagorean_comparison.svg
it is so * obvious.
and i dont even need to understand german in order to know that they are talking absolute bullshit.
" all intervals are always same. and you are a stupid borderline bitch, we are the one to know what is an octave in german " . so fucking pathetic.
is there actually no german here that can teach the goabase idiots a bit of music theory so that we can at least have a more objective truth????????????????????? they are threatening with violence just because i tell them what is an octave.
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
1848
Posted : Jul 26, 2009 18:49
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Honestly if I were you I would just forget the Goabase site even has a forum. Every time I look over there I cringe.
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
Posts :
2822
Posted : Jul 26, 2009 18:59
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i wont waste my time as well..
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
1848
Posted : Jul 26, 2009 19:13
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I was just messing around a bit with this theory in my free time and was wondering if anyone noticed the similarities of a kick and bassline using 1/16th notes at approx. 145-152 bpm and a spectrographic analysis of human brain wave patterns in the alpha state. I wish I had the tools to analyze that more closely.
Moki, can you please send me a couple of audio files in wav form of frequencies you'd recommend? I want to try the effects of sound input data FM modulation on various patches I've been making in my Virus.
Putting the scientific aspect of it aside, it's proving a rather fun concept to keep in mind when generating sound, and really I suppose that's the important part. |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Jul 26, 2009 20:00
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On 2009-07-23 00:42, Freeflow wrote:
*eLliSDee* - yeah lets solve this... im not good at math at all but i would like to learn more
here is a website about ratio and how to calculate them...
http://www.webmath.com/k8ratio.html
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do you really need this link my friend???:)))
it is more simple than you imagine. open the link with the graph above. you see:
an octave is equal to 1200 cent.
if you divide this octave to 12 equal parts, you have the same intervals for each point of separation ( these are the black points in the graphic).
and you see the EQUAL TEMPERED DIVISION.
but if you take the interval 3:2 as a main dividing factor, then it looks different:
so, if you start with an A of 432 hz , then you get THROUGH THE INTERVAL OF 3:2 the frequency for your D will be 288hz. and the frequency for your E will be 648 hz:
648:432=3:2
you see????????????????????
it is ALL ABOUT THE DIVISION....
hope you are not offended that i am " teaching". actually i am not teaching but i cant stand the false facts being spread around any more.especially if there is no serious argument other than my personality and sexuality and level of stupidity. actually i am so near to going to court because of the forum idiots in goabase that you cant even imagine.
so you can actually bann anyone who has a different opinion than yours, but if you ban people who spread the right facts instead of believing the bullshit in goabase, then it is exactly fascism what you do.
and especially if you say : " you cant tell me what is an octave because i am the powerful to know and speak german - then it fascism pure. this is what is called fascism.
the octave is a term that is quite international . no one has the right to tell me not to speak on the octave in german.
so actually it will be so much better if there would be a different trance culture for idiots and dummies. and another for the rest.
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Jul 26, 2009 23:38
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Quote:
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On 2009-07-26 19:13, Axis Mundi wrote:
Moki, can you please send me a couple of audio files in wav form of frequencies you'd recommend? I want to try the effects of sound input data FM modulation on various patches I've been making in my Virus.
Putting the scientific aspect of it aside, it's proving a rather fun concept to keep in mind when generating sound, and really I suppose that's the important part.
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the point is that these frequencies for the start are nothing complicated in their audible form.
example. here is saturn.
http://planetware.de/octave/saturn.html
direct link to the mp3:
http://www.planetware.de/audio/17-14785-saturn.mp3
and you find them all through the table:
http://planetware.de/octave/table.html
and btw my way of giving the frequencies here in this topic is very simple: i check the planet for the sign, for the ascending point and for the moon or other significant points of interest where more planets come to conjuct on your horoscope picture. so i give you three vectors. they are very simple waves that you could even put into your software through one single number of herz.
and here are different genius projects that use those frequencies where you can hear them being modulated and expanded:
http://www.planetware.de/musik/CDs.html
but as you are in berlin now, i could let you hear a couple of interesting things that might be of use for you.
for me one of my favourite masterpieces ist morphon. i absolutely love saturn, the full version in the promo cd, 23 minute. i find the structure of the track an absolute masterpiece.
and you know, for sure i dont know everything either, and i want to learn more and experiment. no one has the ultimate truth. but everyone has freedom of expression and freedom of believe. more impolrtant than any solidarity and wahtever other rule of communicating and behaving.
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
Posts :
2822
Posted : Jul 27, 2009 00:17
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sad thing with planet wave is , that these frequencies are limited to specific bpm values..
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*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Jul 27, 2009 02:04
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that means i cannot use the piano roll to change notes. I'd have to tune my synth for each note to be able to use the full scale. tedious
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Jul 27, 2009 09:22
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On 2009-07-27 00:17, Zork wrote:
sad thing with planet wave is , that these frequencies are limited to specific bpm values..
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this is also something that i find worth spending time to find a better solution. to me it would also be much better if the bpm is between 140 and 150. because with the present data we can only make chill out out of it .
and i mentioned this point already but i understand that no one can read all the 18 pages here ( may be we really start a live show discussing the octave live once per month with experts with a live cam on the net), so i hope you also understand that i have to repeat some things more than once:).
but the point is: actually these bpms are just a lower octave of the frequencies fot the planet. for instance saturn : we use 147,85 - the frequency of the 37. octave of the saturn rotation tone ( the 0.octave is once in 29 years). for the bpm we use the 31. octave of the same frequency ( the starting frequency is 29 years for one rotation)
so the point is that we actually cover this frequency twice - once with the audible frequency of saturn ( !!! -11,93 cent from 440 hz standard pitch) and once with the bpm. and we could use another one for the bpm. for instance we can synchronize the bpm with the brain frequencies instead.
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