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the cosmic octave and mathematics
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jul 1, 2009 17:21
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| It seems like this whole theory is based around Western music. How does eastern/indian/japanese/micronesian music theory factor into all of this? It seems important since these styles of music are arguably more ancient/widely prevalent int he history of music than the Western 12-semitone octave. Yet it has never been mentioned anywhere. |
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Actually it is "based" or very well synchronised with Indian music. Indian music is based on the so called sadja or sa and corresponds to 136,1 hz. this is exactly the corresponding frequency for the tone of the earth year in the 32. octave 
It is true that Indian Music does not have the same intervalls as we do in Europe. They have shrutis. But the frequencies themselves are the same if you would use 432 hz as a standard pitch. You get the 432hz from 136,1 if you use the number 12.th root of 2. It is all about the differences between diatonic and chromatic tuning.
Actually we were wiser in Europe some years ago as well, but now we are too scientifical. But we used to use 432 hz as well, so western music used to be tuned as well.
Interesting is the Chinese music because of the Pentatonics. Actually i dont even know one person from China doing trance, which is pity. Do they?
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| About these attractors:
I'm still completely lost what you're talking about here. I'm sure you tried to explain it above but frankly this threadis way too convoluted for me to sort through it all to find out. Explain again please? |
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yes, it is true, the thread is chaotic. and it is complicated enough even if we would write no off topic at all. so it is appreciated if we keep it to the minimum offtopic, otherwise it is impossible to get further.
well an attractor is generally this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractor
strange attractors are the fractals. everyone knows what is a fractal i hope?:)
strange attractor is what happened yesterday here in this forum. it is the mirror side of the world. strange attractor is the fact that you use a six star in your logo in myspace and me too in my website which is merkaba and the flower of life.
well. i come later with the frequency anyway. want to really check if there are recommendations for a frequency with your "disease" and if not i will give the most suitable according to your sign.
btw i am reading such an incredible book today about chaos and medicine. actually there is so much evidence that one has to be blind not to see it.
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jul 1, 2009 18:11
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but you know, actually may be daark was right asking to move the topic somewhere else.
i dont want to occur in any place which is not the right place for me to occur:). and besides may be it is really true that the profis in trance dont even get the basics of my idea. so it is ok if you move it, hope to be able to finish the topic though. i will also keep you in touch what cousto answered to me.
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a STRANGE ATTRACtor is may be the most interesting phenomenon in the scientific world. because the fractal is the evidence that shows us what chaos really means. a strange attractor is what creates order in the chaos. and it is four dimensional. you can imagine many many pulsating lines in the three dimensions and another dimension of vibrations in the fourth dimension which is actually the mirror world for the first three dimensions. a strange attractor is the effect of lorenz - small changes on the system lead to exponential effects, it is like the 8 hz among friends you know:).
an attractor is generally where a dynamic system ends up. it can be a point ( like the time of death in a human life or the oint "where a pendulum ends") but it can be also a strange attractor. a strange attractor doesnt end in the same point where it started. isratrance is a strange attractor. goabase was an attractor. every time i go there i have to really disappear in the zero point. this is not a strange attractor.
actually love is a strange attractor too. but okey, i leave it, before i make any mod angry. these mods actually they are one of the most powerful persons in the web. )))because they are allowed to censore. and they are allowed to put a dynamic strange attractor into a normal one ending in zero. whatever.
may be connect me sometimes, i can give you probably useful information how you survive in germany ( because you mentioned it is difficult for a non eu).
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
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1848
Posted : Jul 1, 2009 18:24
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If the mods haven't closed the thread by now then they probably are not ever going to. So I think you're safe from that.
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Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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1772
Posted : Jul 1, 2009 22:35
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Moki..I just remembered, you might want to check out some stuff on Gamelan tuning. I took a theory class a while ago and I think at some point we talked about some alternatives to 12-tone temperament. The 5 tone concept you mentioned earlier might be somewhere in there, although I still don't see the "cosmic" relevance.
Anyway, I will be looking into some of this more out of interest in theory, but I still stand by my skepticism when it comes to alternative medicine and spirituality.
Could you please explain the connection between the octave and a matrix in a dynamical system? I understand that you could view the octave as a vector, but I don't understand how that corresponds to the butterfly effect or strange attractors.
 You believe in the users?
Yeah, sure. If I don't have a user, then who wrote me? |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jul 1, 2009 23:59
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well what is chaos at all?
we can check first of all is music a dynamic chaotic system and can this be classified as an attractor at all. we need the following conditions:
1. it must be sensitive to initial conditions,
2.it must be topologically mixing, and
3.its periodic orbits must be dense.
1. is is very sensible to initial conditions. you change 440 into 432 and a very significant change happens. not out of spirituality but because it is obviously another type of octave.
2. topologically mixing.
actually if we had the statistics which is fast enough to create sound out of possibility , then it would be exactly an example of chaos.
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| Topologically mixing means that the system will evolve over time so that any given region or open set of its phase space will eventually overlap with any other given region |
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this looks very much like resonance in time to me...now you will say, resonance is predictable and not chaotic. but it is not predictable if you cannot predict the starting points of the vectors.
what does it have to do with a dynamic system. well for chaos you need a dynamic system. and in the basis of this dynamic system there is a vector:
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| The vector field v(x) is a smooth function that at every point of the phase space M provides the velocity vector of the dynamical system at that point. |
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with one word. if you have a dynamic chaotic system which is a represented as a vector , you have also an attractor which is sort of the constant of inevitability. it happens inevitably that an attractor takes place in this system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamical_system
"Small variations of the initial condition of a dynamical system may produce large variations in the long term behavior of the system. "
this is butterfly. why strange attractors? well why strange attractors, this is also my question as well. trying to find out what strange attractors in terms of music can be. if you have them, you have the butte´rfly effect.
but whatever. just to keep you informed, cousto did not comment the issue with the attractors in his answer to me today, he commented two other things but not the attractors.
so i also dont know what is it. but it is strange cause i am so sure about it.....that it is an attractor...
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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779
Posted : Jul 2, 2009 00:27
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I could have sworn there was something back a while about merkabas being six pointed ... this obviously isn't right... being a Stella Octangula, its a polyhedron compound composed of two tetrahedrons with one inverted to the other. This naturally excludes them from being six pointed. They are 8 pointed. Assuming, of course you only count the outermost extremities, and not internal points.
Of course, many people associate Merkabas with Kepler from Harmonice Mundi written in 1619, and choose to imbue them with mystical qualities.
The reality is they were first recorded (as far as is known) by the lesser known Wenzel Jamnitzer in 1568, and of course, there are an infinite variety of polyhedron compouds - there is nothing particularly special about it being the simplist polyhedron compound.
But maybe I have finally lost the plot, and I've imagined the entire thing.
Somehow, I find this analgous to this entire thread. .
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jul 2, 2009 01:04
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And on the subject of statistics.
This is possibly (possibly) the most misunderstood subject I have ever come across.
Inherent to very concept of statistics is uncertainty. The application of statistics is in of itself an admission that knowledge is either (a) not achieved at this point or (b) not achievable.
It is, if you like, the polar opposite of mathematics, which is only concerned with proof, or to put it another way, knowledge. They use the same language to say entirely, irreconciably different things.
To put it in a different way, statistics is knowing how uncertain you are. At fifty percent we are in the realms of 'fucked if I know'. At a hundred percent certain, or uncertain, it ceases to be a statistical study and becomes a mathematical one. The two are mutually exclusive.
It is for this reason that at good universities that statistics is not a sub branch of mathematics - its an entirely different faculty.
Statistics is certainly useful within science, but only in so far as to discuss uncertainty.
Speaking personally, this is why I'm not an atheist, but an agnostic. An Atheist knows far more than I suspect I ever will 
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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A.Rosengren
Solid Snake
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266
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Posted : Jul 2, 2009 01:04
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On 2009-07-01 18:24, Axis Mundi wrote:
If the mods haven't closed the thread by now then they probably are not ever going to. So I think you're safe from that.
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Trying not to :)
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ansolas
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 2, 2009 01:10
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jul 2, 2009 01:12
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ansolas
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 2, 2009 01:18
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jul 2, 2009 01:23
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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1931
Posted : Jul 2, 2009 09:55
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On 2009-07-01 15:17, Axis Mundi wrote:
Dec 8th, 1979
11:32 PM
Panama City beach, Florida (USA)
Latitude:
30.1586111
30° 9' 31" N
30 degrees, 9 minutes, 31 seconds North
Longitude:
-85.6602778
85° 39' 37" W
85 degrees, 39 minutes, 37 seconds West
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once again back to the numbers:).
so i checked the case and looked in a map for the houses and ascendants.( keep in mind that this is a very rational science of numbers, the only not-rational thing is to realize that the stars influence us)
you are so much attracting mars actually !
you are like a magnet for mars. really.
i would suggest that you work on the following two frequencies:
183,58hz which is Fis.
this is appropriate for your sign and btw althought i did not find special table with this sort of desease in the books of lady schubert ( the one healing with tuning forks in the hospitals), but i found that this disease might be typical for sign...with this ascendent. so i would suggest you use parallel also for MARS:
144,72 hz, D.
i am interested to know what did you feel after you worked with these two numbers. hope you keep us informed.
!!!!! i am really interested
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
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Posted : Jul 2, 2009 10:19
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On 2009-07-01 15:20, Speakafreaka wrote:
Damn, we are very much same era Axis!
I'm curious too:
Oct 26th 1979
1.29am
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA.
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okey another attractor of mars ( hey people, i am interested to know how many people in the topic of mine would actually turn to be mars attractors. i am a mars attractor too).
so here the starting points for you too:
mercury: 141,27 hz.
jupiter: 183,58 hz
and mars from above.
but emphasise on mercury....
btw i dont know so well the geography of the states , i got quite a lot of places with the name wisconsin. but anyway, it can be much more detailed than what i am giving you here. this is the basis of your vectors.
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
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Posted : Jul 2, 2009 10:25
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oh noo, i need to find out another thing. i was on the wrong date right now! nor so much mars here....
well ppl actually here is a game for you.
i need ten persons from you who do music. they get three vectors from me. after two months we meet again and check if the persons have observed any changes. so 10 ppl here?
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