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The anatomy of trance (human)
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FaceHead
FaceHead
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Posted : Jun 18, 2010 03:39:41
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In thinking more thouroughly about what happens when a trance state is induced or what conditions need to be present for it to take place i thought about our heart rates. the faster we dance the faster our heart rate... the older we get the lower our heartrate gets. maximum is about 200bpm minimum is about 90bpm very similar indeed to the tempo range of electronic music. so perhaps trance states are induced or assisted by the tempo syncing temporarily with our heart rates beatmatching our bodies to the pulses blasting through the air in ways we can feel as well as hear. so if our dance is viewed as a monitor for our thoughts sorta like a human eeg machine. expelling our interperetations of what is coming out of the speakers at the "exact" same time that it is being shot at us and inputed into our brains then maybe this is the when the trance takes place.
anyway my confusions aside here is a heart rate chart so you can properly choose what bpm you want peoples hearts to beat at when listening to your song.... keep in mind you must estimate the amount of activity one would be doing to your music. swaying being like 60% and all out stomping being like 85%?
i dont know make of it what you will or make nothing of it
Age Target HR Zone
50–85 % Average Maximum
Heart Rate
100 %
20 years 100–170 beats per minute 200 beats per minute
25 years 98–166 beats per minute 195 beats per minute
30 years 95–162 beats per minute 190 beats per minute
35 years 93–157 beats per minute 185 beats per minute
40 years 90–153 beats per minute 180 beats per minute
45 years 88–149 beats per minute 175 beats per minute
50 years 85–145 beats per minute 170 beats per minute
55 years 83–140 beats per minute 165 beats per minute
60 years 80–136 beats per minute 160 beats per minute
65 years 78–132 beats per minute 155 beats per minute
age/range/maximum
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dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 18, 2010 03:57
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A trance state has nothing to do with heart rate as far as I know. Trance states are however produced at certain tempos. All of the tempos you have listed seem far too high to induce a trance state generally between 120-145 or so I'd say to induce a trance state. Playing at 140 bpm 1/8 note acid lines produces a trance state in most people. So I suppose your logic is right because if the acid were hitting on the beat it would be about 240bpm so maybe your chart is too low  IDK tbh. I just know I read an article about trance state and usually its created by the continuous flow of notes at a certain rythm.
When people dance they just flow with the rythm of the track and react accordingly to how they think they should move to that beat. I think comparing it to an eeg is a little wild considering an eeg is just the brains magnetic waves being emitted. Now there is another brain test that you can actually view on a monitor images of what someone is seeing in their mind as they think about things maybe it is more closely related to that test.
Or perhaps the mri because the mri can tell whats going on in the brain more closely it can tell if you are sleeping or what parts of the brain are active etc. So if someone has isolated the part of the brain that induces a trance state and puts people through a series of tests to see what bpms etc and what rythms induce that trance state I think that would be rather accurate. For example, they can tell if you even remotely fall asleep during an mri.
Additionally someone who gets adequate exercise has a resting heartrate of around 70-80 when they are healthy and somewhat young. My resting heartrate is 86. I don't exercise regularly at the moment but when I did it was in the lower 80s. When you exercise it creates more blood vessels in your heart thus allowing oxygen to reach it easier. That means your heart has to do less work to do its job thats why exercise and age play such a role in someones resting heart rate. http://www.youtube.com/user/trawhi (tutorials)
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 18, 2010 18:44
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Very interesting thread!
Not sure if there is any connection with the heart rate – just can not come up with a plausible explanation for why there would be such a connection. Heart is a pretty autonomous entity – it will beat even outside of the body. In fact, you can mince it, digest it with trypsin and grow a single layer of cells in a Petri dish – that film of “orphaned” heart cells will start beating in a matter of a few hours.
On the other hand, I count my heart beats instead of sheep when I can not fall asleep. You do that, synchronize your breathing (3 beats in – 5 beats out) – works much better than counting sheep, for me at least.
I believe it was Pr0fane, who made this (rather artificial, imho) connection between music tempo and heart rate in one of the many “how dark is dark and should we call it “dark” and isn’t it too dark and lets stop saying “dark” for otherwise it will become too dark in here” threads. Something along the lines of “my heart beats at 140 BPM – not 180”.
I remember once a friend told me with a serious face that railroad train engineers suffer from heart arrhythmias because of the constant “tig-dig tig-dig” knocks of the train wheels. Interesting theory.
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-=Mandari=-
Mandari
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Posted : Jun 19, 2010 13:19
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well,
at the end inducing a trance state has less to do with the bpm than with the human behind. on the other side we´re to nearly 94% out of water (at least that´s what blood is, teeth f.e. sure would be less).
so one can say we will react to any kind of sonic source like water would.... so we´ll resonate to it. btw, same to visual frequencies, that´s why one reacts to the light of the moon, one reacts to the frequental content of this light. it could be octavated down to make it audible.
that´s kinda freaky, because imo this is the only reason why music can alter different states of mind in us. so to me the bpm just increases the effect of a specific tone. one can say theres only one right bpm to a tone (which would causing the tone to resonate to the beat and vice versa) and one could octavate that up or down. this is how i calculate the tone of my bpm or vice versa.
anyways, to come back to the point, why most ppl feel that 144 rythm as inducing trancy mind state (trancendental mindstates) is simply because that this rythm divided by two (octavated down one octave) is pretty much the heartbeat of human at our age if the brain is resting in a trancendental state of mind like you do during moments of daydreaming. so it sure also has to do with the heartbeat, but this is resulting by the resonation factor of the brain, not the music itself. if the music is physcially that loud and the soundsystem that big that the sonic source physically effects the heartbeat, than would be kinda different story. but until there, the heartbeat is pretty much the result of the brainfrequency.
so what i try to say is, any bpm at an specific value which is applyable to the resonation factor of an specific state of mind in our brain like alpha,betha etc. would result in inducing exactly this state of mind. an easy explanation to me why many ppl also feel comfortable to higher bpms is that specific ranges like 161bpm or 176 are pretty near to natural frequencies appearing i.e. as the kulmination period of the moon which we should all resonate to, though we´re pretty used to it. as this groove is simply in us, a lot of ppl open minded just give themselves to the music and the rythm dont thinking about bpms, sounds, breaks, genres and stuff. they simply resonate like we all do at the end. it´s just another state of mind one reaches, different to lower bpms on a different frequency.
so, imo i can say one is easily able to induce any state of mind in a brain if one´s familiar with these things and a bit of music theories. anyone knows the brown tone  ??
just kidding,.....but at the end theres a bit truth in it. if i would know the frequency of ones need to poooO, i swear i could let the whole party shit their pants ass deep you just force the body to resonate to this one frequency. and this is pretty easy if you got 60kw soundsystem infront of some a few liter water based humans
however, i also found this to be very interesting and im sure kinda this above is the only answer, because sure theres a reason why we feel comfortable with different bpms and tones. also males and females differ in contained water in the body, imo this is why they also differ in resonation factor and their brains frequencies therefor. they will be slightly different while beeing at the same state of mind. this is for sure the same between two males or two females, they will always slightly differ in their brain frequencies, as they contain different levels of water which at the end determines the "efficiency level" of the resonation and therefor induced state of mind....
btw.... imo much in life and sure music is about to control the frequencies we´re all transmitter and receiver at the same time. so to me in life it´s a lot about controlling resonance and stoping just to react and receive while starting to transmit.
without all the sonic material in our world which we´re not able to achieve, our achieved reality would be a completely different to the actual. like blake said that well: "if the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is". at the end all materia wouldnt hold without the surrounding sonic and subsonic material. also if this "web" of sonic and subsonic frequencies drastically changes, our reality would flip completely to another, faster than one could think of it.
another bpm thingy to me has some more to do with repetative grooves and rythms. so, imo at higher bpms (does not automatically mean machine gun modus, so i include ranges one personally may not feel that fast, like from 140 up i.e.) the brain starts to induce different mindstate while the beat is always keeping the same. why one usually worx the common 8bar/16bar grooves, is because they´re simply a good way to induce trancendent state of mind in our brain by the repetative rythm of the 4/4 beat. the time is enough to fource the brain to resonate and not too much to stay before getting bored. for sure also is some about mathematix, but that besides, should each one of us know.
so, now it is commonly usual that more elements are added to create a rising feeling. these are for sure taken if we come back down etc. by knowing of the emotional effect of a tone or scale i.e. i can create monstrous emotional fx and deep trancendental experiences on the audience for sure.
anyways, this would be about the trancy effect of psytrance or trance music in general. the up and down one could compare with the up and down in life hehe
BUT, there will be the same trancendent state of mind in our brain if you just hear kick/bass for half an hour. the hypnotic effect to our brain would simply be the same. psyachoustical fx besides. sure our brain will start to imagine changes in the rythm or frequency of the beat by time. this is why ppl also feel comfortable with progressive music or minimal stuff. therefor the same rules and in 4/4 music (doesnt has to be!!) for sure the same like above. it´s about the frequency of the rythm and the sonic content at itself, not a specific genre or stuff. if one would give up listening to music and starts to look at oneself objective while just resonating (not thinking of anything that moment), one would easily be able to observe that any music at the same frequency content will result in the same state of mind, whatever genre it is and one can sing the badest and most evil things to and audience, if one does with a friendly voice while friendly music is playing. the audience will resonate to this and not the spoken content. this is kind of more freaky if you dont understand the language. one could easily tell ya to kill you next day, in a way a 1,80 blue eyed blonde would tell you that she needs it, in a songmaybe, and you wont get it. just thinking about older blues/ska/raggae stuff.... i mean i´m completely unpolitic, so no discussion about that, but a good example for what i mean.
interesting stuff, nice thread!
hope one doesnt mind my few thoughts about that. coffee`s guilty love these fresh topics in the morning i can load my shit off heheee
cheers: stephan
FUCK GENRES, LOVE MUSIC!!!!
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 19, 2010 17:56
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Great thread, keep it up people.
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anyways, this would be about the trancy effect of psytrance or trance music in general. the up and down one could compare with the up and down in life hehe
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Yeah, pretty much everything in this universe is vibration. But when it comes to psytrance and its radical buildups and fx, i always think of it as a mimic of the drug experience (that happens to also go up n down).
Specially psychedelics. Which i think you all should consider while talking about trance induction, drive n control of the psychedelic experience, intensification, climax, resolutions, blah, blah, etc.
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Sanathana
Sanathana
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Posted : Jun 20, 2010 01:39
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great thread, informative and love the discussion so far would love to see where this goes
some food for thought: In India during Kali / Durga puja i.e. worshiping the deiti Kali / Durga, the priests keep chanting mantras and beat the drums and bells which is approximately 140 to 150 BPM They also have women in the background shouting and howling, some puja's also use sounds of cry, cats crying, people screaming etc... almost like what night time psy sounds like. Sometimes during this session, many women lose themselves to something referred to as a 'possession of Devi' i.e. women generally get possessed by spirit of devi and start swaying to the mantras and chanting.... it is a psychedelic experience without the use of substances..... true state of trance can be achieved through vibration as mentioned....
Vibrations can be caused by repetitive chanting, melodies, swaying frequencies and the like i.e. at least having one of the above repeating itself.....
anyways i would love to see what people have to say about this thread
 lets continue
PLUR
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Labels Associated with: Samana Records | Geomagnetic | Triptec | Independent Mind | SkyGravity | Goatrance.pl | Psytr |
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moondoggy
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Posted : Jun 20, 2010 02:55
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the music at our pow wows is nightlong in duration, thumping the drums in 4/4 at increasing tempo throughout the evening, i use a lot of recordings from these in my music lately and found ranges 120-160 bpm..also find interesting the use of shakers, which traditionally are hollowed-out turtle shells filled with pebbles, shells etc and are then tied to the ankles of woman and as they stomp and shuffle to the music it creates kind of a flangey lead effect..of course the use of chants and occasional flute or other percussive instrument adds to the vibrational alterations and helps create a truly trance-inducing state |
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dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 20, 2010 09:44
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 21, 2010 01:34
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I got a couple of books that discuss music from biomedical perspective: “Musicophilia: Tales of Music and the Brain” and “This is Your Brain on Music: the Science of a Human Obsession”. Just started reading the first one. It had a chapter on music-induced seizures and said that the trigger is usually very individual: in one person it was a specific melody played by church bells, in another it was a particular patriotic song, in somebody else it was a sound of a bus passing by etc. But I have an experience that is exact opposite – when a specific kind of music actually stopped seizures!
Awhile ago I used to babysit my friends’ little daughter. They had a busy life, and to me babysitting was like free psychotherapy – so, it worked out well for everybody and I ended up babysitting for them almost every day. The poor child was born with some neurological problem that went away by the time she turned 2. But in the first 2 years she would have some kind of seizures that manifested themselves as very bad headaches. She used to put her hand on her head and walk around for hours, screaming on top of her lungs close to the ultrasound range. I tried to carry her around, to sing to her, to give her her favorite toys – nothing. I ran out of the ways to distract her, so I turned TV on and started flipping through cartoon channels. No effect. Music channels. Nothing. Suddenly she stopped crying, got all happy and started watching TV. It was a paid music channel, “The Box”, where they give you catalogue numbers for songs and you can call them and dial in the code and they play a clip for you (and charge you $3 for it – a total rip-off). Anyway, most of the music on that channel was rap. And amazingly enough that was her cure! So, every time she had those bouts of headaches, I would switch on “The Box” channel – and she would happily watch dudes riding in huge jumpy cars and pouring malt liquor on the ground. It really worked like magic – every time! Now, that’s something worth looking into (scientifically)...
Anyway, about BPMs. I think there is a big cultural component there too. Like if you want to play a Renaissance time dance tune and set the tempo according to what it says in the notes – it will be way too fast. Because where our modern metronomes say “Moderato” that would be on a faster side of “Allegretto” for those times. So, for all the arguments we have here about 180 BPM machine-gun darkpsy – who knows, 500 years from now people may consider it old-fashioned ball dance music for stuck-up aristocrats. 
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 21, 2010 03:59
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... On the other hand, maybe cultural stuff is irrelevant here - since we are talking about trance, not a social dance. |
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FaceHead
FaceHead
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Posted : Jun 21, 2010 09:30
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its so hard to find wig powder these days:)
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 21, 2010 19:41
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Would be interesting to see powdered dreadlocks... |
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