The aliens are here...

On 2009-08-30 21:54, Aluxe wrote:

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On 2009-08-30 17:12, bbgun wrote: Quote: On 2009-08-21 19:33, djanahata wrote: Very recomended !!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk I just watched the full project disclosure video. To me, it seems like a bunch of fully conscious charlatans and rip-off artists. So much stuttering, so many sweaty palms, so much throat clearing, so many confessions of "being scared or nervous", so many shifty eyes, so much right brain-brain image construction, so much memorization, so much word choking, so much forgetfulness. But so little evidence? Why all the anxiety and tension when they have legal council and claim themselves that nothing they're saying is against the constitution? Also considering they are willing to testify in front of congress? hah. If these guys are so desperate to reveal "truth" why didn't that crook in the beginning project his video? why didn't he play his audio tape recording? Why was such a blissfully idiotic audience present, with daft journalists asking moronic questions? Why did that thug towards the end say it would "take too long" to describe the bodies he saw? And then quite simply said aliens looked humanoid the next second? Also, how did this fraudster know that the aliens could go into a darkroom and guess what color an object was by touching it, especially when he said the aliens were shot with rifles when they surfaced from the craft? These guys should be ashamed of themselves. Lie after lie after lie. Either these racketeers are actually deluded(I don't think so except for those two chicks), or pulling off a cheap gimmick, or were fired from their positions in the government(if they were actually employed) at some point. Don't get me wrong, I too am pretty certain there's E.T life elsewhere, it's just that this video is riddled with gas and quacks.

Bbgun, your analysis of the video is kind of flaky and childish, I mean seriously. First you proceed to insult all these people of whom YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT by calling them: charlatans, fraudsters, crooks and liars based only on the fact that they are not providing any evidence and are only sharing their testimony. Is this really fair? I mean you can choose not to believe somebodies testimony, and that is fair. But to dismiss them all as liars without any knowledge of who they are seems a bit moronic if you ask me. I mean if you had worked on some of these projects with these people, knew their history, their ranks, and the type of people they actually are then you would have some grounds to call them liars. Otherwise you fall in the typical ignorant closed minded mindset of talking about things you really do not know jack shit about.

You ask for evidence of what these people are claiming, but a lot of times, even in the court of law, all you have is a testimony and it can still have a lot of merit and value. And in this case I think the value of many of these witnesses comes forward when you consider the ranks and high positions and projects they have been involved with. They are not just some bbgun nobody talking out of their ass in a forum. I mean you have airforce pilots, engenieers involved with the manufacturing of military aircraft, military colonels, high ranking defense officials, astronouts who have been to the moon, etc. So you have to be real moron not to give any validity whatsoever the testimonies of these people. And if anything these people are putting their reputation on the line because this subject that has been target criticism and ridicoule for a long time. You have to understand that like bbgun, most people in the world have a hard time opening up their minds to the possiblity that all this stuff could actually be taking place.

And bbgun points out that there is a lot of stuttering, sweaty palms, shifty eyes, etc in these witnesses while they are talking, as if that is proof that they are liars. He goes on to make this statement:

“Why all the anxiety and tension when they have legal council and claim themselves that nothing they're saying is against the constitution?”

WOW.. talk about a lack of grasp of this subject. Dude these people are claimin that there is a coverup and that people involved in these black operations are threatened in every possible way so they don’t come out with this info. When Dr Greer makes the claim that “they have legal council and nothing they are saying is against the constitution” it’s to try and protect themselves against these powers that have been manipulating things. If this whole coverup is true you can bet that there many many more witnesses who have CHOSEN not to come out because of fear of their lives. Because they will threaten to kill you, your family, your friends and that is not the price that most people are willing to pay for disclousure. So if that is the case, then these people that came out with their testimony are very fucking brave, because they are putting not only their reputation at risk but potentially also their life. And so displaying all those characteristcs you describe like sweaty palms, eyes shifting, etc actually makes, ummm…. PERFECT SENSE. In fact it would be odd if these people were totally relaxed in disclosing this information openly when its highly supresed by very powerful people. Understand amigo? Think about it, it actually all makes sense that these people would be having anxiety and nervousness,. And I think the point of the discloure project was also to try and get as many people together to come out openly at the same time, that way it would reach the press and these people would be somehow more protected than if they came out each on their own.

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So, this video isn't highly recommended for information, but for ridicule and laughter purposes. Enjoy.

An you base this out of your simplistic biased anaylis of the video? hehe..

On 2009-08-30 23:18, Axis Mundi wrote:
The whole UFO debate throws in a lot of hypotheticals for me. Firstly, I'm certain that life exists elsewhere in the universe, somehow.

Relating to issues such as crop circles, I think one point that has been missed is that the potential for human creativity in the case of pulling off some elaborate deception as that. There are also very natural, earthly ways (surprisingly many of them quite simple) of creating some of the aftereffects (magnetic fluctuations, radiation, chemical changes, etc.) so there's not a total reason to conclude it came from outside our planet or that it's beyond human means.

Relating to "UFO" sightings, it's important to remember what the term stands for... "UNIDENTIFIED flying object". A light in the sky is just that... if there's no other possible way to explain it, assuming it's an alien craft is just as fallacious as any. Maybe it's better to remain open to possibilities when no direct answers exist. It's interesting to see the context of so many people such as here using the term "UFO" to describe alien craft when the term really means a flying object that couldn't be identified.

Some questions I ask myself: If aliens had the capacity to come into our realm somehow, wouldn't they be able to do it in a way we would be completely oblivious to? If they want to be seen, it's to tell or show us something... wouldn't they be smart enough to figure out a more direct and clear and profound method that humans would be able to understand instead of need to creatively interpret? If it's to monitor us for some reason, why be so flashy and elusive at the same time? Wouldn't they just be able to take some bits of DNA to wherever they want to that we wouldn't know about to do their experiments? And many more.

Regarding the Disclosure Project discussion, one possibility to be considered is that neither they are liars, nor are they under pressure from some conspiracy villains, etc... Maybe... they mean well (or not) but some of them aren't entirely sure about what they are talking about. There are a lot of reasons for this.

One reason may be that, as was pointed out, many of these people spent their whole lives in the field. Even for scientists (who are humans also) to accept that their entire life's work turns out to be a sham, or at least perceived as a sham by their environment. That's a hard sort of thing for a lot of people to accept. So, as in human behavior, the mind struggles to assign worth to its efforts because it's easier to accept than that the idea or work turned out to be for error. Maybe others such as pilots are also not ENTIRELY sure of what they saw... they lack some definitive proof themselves to validate the experience, but they have gone over the story for so long in their mind and told the story over and over that the brain "fills in the gaps" and even convinces the self that the stopgaps are truth. This is simple human behavior and everyone does this in their memory from the littlest things in life on up.

Regarding the worth of testimonies... Yes it's true that testimonies can have a lot of worth (such as in and especially outside of court). Sometimes they can have too much worth to the point of being dangerous and having a potential for exploitation when there is no other evidence to corroborate with.

There is also the possibility that at least some of these testimonies are at least some part hallucination. Hallucinations can occur for many reasons outside a person's control or even awareness and if it's so easy for some people such as many on this board, for example, to blur the line to what's real and what's imagination, it's only logical to assume the line can be blurred both ways. Especially under stress.

I think what it all boils down to is that there's an intrinsic, subconscious need to find meaning in life and to suspect that there must be more to what our senses tell us. We can never quite put our finger on what it exactly is, and many times we're not even aware that we're on the search for it, but almost always there is a strife that goes beyond logic and rationale to cling to the possibility that we're something special, because the notion that we're nothing more than a speck of dust and a spark of energy floating locationless within an infinite soup of space and time, rendering most of the day to day activities we put so much effort and misery into, meaningless, is just too hard to bear for most souls. It's possible (just try to be open here for a second to the idea) that SOMETIMES, alien abduction accounts and other "paranormal" experiences (such as the waves of demon possessions that gripped people in the context of past paranoia of society) are people's way of feeling special, unique, valued, acknowledged, because in our souls the feeling of loneliness, being wrong, and not knowing is much more frightening to bear. In the epic face of the universe, human affairs are really, really miniscule.

That's not to say that there isn't any truth in most of these ideas. As I said, it's foolish to assume that there is no life but Earth life in the universe and it's even plausible to assume that at least some life, if not ALL Earth life, has been influenced by, or entirely came from it's environment, that is, the universe around us.

I guess you could say that an idea is like a snowball, and when you roll it around on the ground, it accumulates more snow and begins to change its shape and picks up pieces of dirt and debris and takes it within itself. That's basically the way I feel about the whole alien anthropomorphistic theories as well as many other ideas and stories which have been tossed about our history for long enough.

On 2009-08-31 01:41, Aluxe wrote:
Bbgun you stated that ALL these witnesss are LIARS despite the fact that you have absolute no idea who they actually are and the projects they have been involed in. And you call on their integrity and lack of evidence when you without without any evidence about of their lack of integrity proceed to call them all liars, charlatans, frauders, rip off artists and racketeers; just because they are only providing their testimony and no concrete evidence. Oh and ofcourse because what they claim goes waaaaaay beyond your personal beliefs and it all seems impossible to you, so much that you feel its correct to dismiss all these testimonies as false without the need to investigate and even feel its correct to go ahead and call them crooks and bunch of other names. Do you honestly feel this is fair? Also you seem to expect the evidence to come to you wrapped up in gift box and knock on your door. Like get down from your cloud, because with that mindset you are basically living in your little box and you are not allowing to many possiblities other than your little set of learned beliefs.

Sure many of these people could be lying, but you have really no grounds to claim they are because you are not even taking the time to investigate these claims. You say great claims require great evidence, yeah ofcourse but unfortunately a lot of times the evidence is not as easy to get for one reason or another. And it’s a fact that there are countless cases where somebodies testimony is TRUE despite the lack of evidence. Or am I wrong? So for you to go ahead and dismiss it all with such certainity and lack of respect and without any serious research on the matter just seems ingorant.

I for instance am not claiming that what these people are saying is true. Hower I think some of these testimonies could very well be true and I at least give them the benefit of the doubt because if you do some research on the subject you will find that a lot of other people corroborate many of these claims. And yeah you are right, Edgar Mitchel is not part of the witnesses here but he has spoken publicly about an alien ufo cover up, which corroborates much of what these witnesss are saying. You get me? And you may dismiss all these ranks and positions but they do have its value because they are completely relevant to the claims they are making. If it was some farmer talking about alien technology in the military it would be hard to imagine how he came across this info. But when you are talking about high ranking military coronels or astronouts talking about black projects and classified information in regards to aliens then they have a bit more crediblity. Still it doesn’t prove that what they are saying is true, but their field of work grants them at least some more crediblity.

And bare in mind that these claims like those shown in the disclousure project only add to a mountain of similar claims and massive ufo sightings (which seem intelligent controlled) and even huge mothership like crafts which you could only describe as some kinf of alien craft. For instance, the phoenix lights were reported by THOUSANDS of people including the gobernor of Arizona at the time. Thousands of people reported seeing some gigantic V shaped craft and there were some pictures and even some videos taken. The videos and pictures were not very detailed at all and are no proof of aliens but corroborate what thousands of people saw. You understand? Thousands of people including pilots and people that are trained to read the skies saw this huge V shaped craft. So are all these thousands of people in the phoenix area also charlatans and pranksters? I mean we are talking about a massive V shaped craft floating and witnessed by thousands of people in the same location. Well this is one more UFO case, there are many others that that also raise a lot of question and in the very least deserve some SERIOUS INVESTIGATION and not just dismissing it all like bbgun did without any research whatsoever. Another famous case is the Roswell incident where the government actually admits to capturing a flying saucer, and then retracts the story. And there are many cases like these, and only one of these needs to be true. I wonder why are people so opposed to the possibility of aliens visiting earth to the point that they will dismiss all claims without any investigation or research? Ignorance? I don’t know. But when you look at all these cases together, (not just one of them isolated) you realize that the possiblity that something is going on here on planet earth is not out of the question.

Firstly, I never used the word LIAR so don't say that.

Perhaps you think I'm clueless about what I'm talking about but I hope this post makes sense. In addition, I'm pretty well read when it comes to this topic. So, considering you have claimed that I have no evidence, why don't YOU do some bloody research and look the controversies surrounding Mr. Greer?

WHY, should anyone be convinced by testimonies?

Once again, I am not saying UFOs or E.T life doesn't exist. Have ETs landed here on Earth? NO, I don't think so because there is no evidence.

I urge you to stop saying that "thousands of people" also saw it for any of your arguments. If you have studied anthropology or have experience in fields of science or philosophy, you will realize that a thousand witnesses of UFOs say NOTHING about aliens.

The TRUTH is important to me. I don't expect it to come gift-wrapped, but I don't expect it to come delivered by some swindlers who have escaped a mental ward either.

So perhaps you sir, will all respect to your loyalty to the "DISCLOSURE PROJECT",
and the rest of your loony friends such as Dr. Greer, Bob Lazar and the likes, should hop onto the next UFO you spot, and buy a one way ticket to wherever they take you. Thanks for your contribution.

On 2009-08-31 05:27, Basilisk wrote:
UFO folklore, much like religion, sounds to me like something a bunch of human beings would have made up. There's a very anthrocentric theme running through it all. These stories sound like they are about ourselves, not gods or aliens.