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Thank god this isn't legal anymore..
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Shaktycat
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
51
Posted : Jan 31, 2007 02:13
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Shaktycat
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
51
Posted : Jan 31, 2007 02:51
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s0ft
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
825
Posted : Jan 31, 2007 03:01
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Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
725
Posted : Jan 31, 2007 03:31
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Psycosmo, you say medical science is advancing through animal testing. But it doesn’t mean we can not advance as well without doing animal testing, I mean if we close that door then humans will be forced to find the answers through other ways, and we will. It might seem like an up hill road at first but hey, that road might force us to pursue scientific understanding more thoroughly and deeply to compensate for lack of animal testing and that in the end could lead to greater, much, much greater medical progress. And there are many examples of medicines and medical procedures that were not discovered through animal testing AT ALL, some very ancient. So the argument that animal testing is essential for medical progress and thus the cruelty is justified to me is very thin and wishful thinking at best.
And like some said already, many of the problems and diseases we have today are precisely because of our disregard to nature and lack of empathy and connection to ALL living beings. Like hey, yeah maybe let’s stop attacking the symptoms and go deeper into actually becoming aware of the root problems. To a great extent I agree with what Buddha once said: “Every human being is the author of his own health or disease”, because a healthy mind means a healthy body as well. And currently the media wants to cure everything with drugs, but it is the mind that brings many of those illnesses and the best vibration for the mind to be in is in love. But how can you be in loving vibration if you are so cruel with animals and have no disregard to their suffering? Yeah, like no wonder we need so many fucking drugs and medicines, because maybe our mind is a bit ill. Practice the good vibes to all living beings and you will live a healthy life where you won’t even need to tourture animals to find medicines because you will be healthy already.
What humanity needs is not more medicines and animal testing, what humanity needs is an awakening into greater sensitivity for all living beings, the we can say there is true progress.
"While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth?"
"Atrocities are not less atrocities when they occur in laboratories and are called medical research."
George Bernard Shaw
“As long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seeds of murder and pain cannot reap the joy of love.”
-Leonardo Da Vinci
"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
- Leonardo da Vinci
"If a group of beings from another planet were to land on Earth -- beings who considered themselves as superior to you as you feel yourself to be to other animals -- would you concede them the rights over you that you assume over other animals?"
-George Bernard Shaw, playwright, Nobel Prize 1925
"Our task must be to free ourselves . . . by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."
"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
-Albert Einstein, physicist, Nobel Prize 1921
"I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't...The pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further."
- Mark Twain, author |
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Jan 31, 2007 03:34
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Quote:
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On 2007-01-31 02:13, Shaktycat wrote:
Psycosmo wrote:
"once you leave this world, there will be no consequences for your actions"
 WTF..?!???!
!!!! This is exactly the kind of attitude that have fucked up things for our and the next generations!
Pollution, wild deforestation, global warming (just to name a few...) are certainly "NO CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR ACTION"..!?!!?
YO...Wake up and smell the humus baby! 
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Read my post again genius, I was speaking of afterlife type of consquences like reincarnation or hell or whatever, not about pollution and global warming. I am concerned about future generations, that's why I support doing tests on lab animals... that way we can learn more about biology and thereby understand things like how pollutants harm living things, and warn people about the dangers. If it hadnt been for animal testing, it would have been hard to make a case for the harmfulness of PCBs, Methyl Mercury, and just about any other controlled pollutant.
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Shaktycat
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
51
Posted : Jan 31, 2007 03:49
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Quote:
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On 2007-01-31 03:31, Aluxe wrote:
"I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't...The pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further."
- Mark Twain, author
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...that's it.
 :: Sub Kuch Milega :: |
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s0ft
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
825
Posted : Jan 31, 2007 06:37
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Jan 31, 2007 08:29
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I consider it hostile to distort my response to suggest that I am not concerned about the Earth and life as a whole, when that clearly is not what I was talking about. I also consider talk of beating people hostile, and I find it offensive when people moralize at me with talk of sinfulness and karma and all this stuff that isnt even part of my spirituality. I think an air of moral superiority for an air of intellectual superiority is a fair trade (of Karma if you will).
I admit I get a bit hotheaded about this, but I love science and I have short patience with the kinds of comments most people were making. Most of it seemed very moralistic, poorly informed, and hypocritical. Condemning scientists for doing research while expecting to go to the hospital and get treated (I didnt get any takers on my offer to refuse medical treatment on moral grounds  ) is like eating a steak and ragging on the evil person who slaughtered it.
Anyway, you don't see me flaming Aluxe, do you? I dont because his tone isnt condescending or hostile, and his points are better thought out than most peoples here. I still disagree with him on this, but his way of expressing himself is a pleasure to read and the substance of what he says is good food for thought.
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s0ft
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
825
Posted : Jan 31, 2007 16:12
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well, good. at least there is a method to the madness. but you must understand that using phrases like "Most of it seemed very moralistic, poorly informed, and hypocritical" makes people hotheaded too. their experiences have led them to what they believe and you must respect that. it is not poorly informed, it is simply informed differently. obviously some of us believe in a higher power and/or an afterlife, which effects our opinions greatly. i dont consider this a weakness at all, as you do.
i'll get down to the meat of my opinion while trying to be as respectful to you opinion as possible. while knowledge is important and vital to us, i just think an appreciation for each individual's life is more important. of course, we kill to survive (im no vegan), but tourture and killing of the unwilling in the pursuit of knowledge just seems barbaric and counterproductive. im not trying to change your opinions, i swear.
when it gets down to it...
hypocritical? yes, i admit it. i kill too. everyone does to a point. effected by my spiritual beliefs? yes, of course. also, my best friend is an animal. i just can't imagine his life is more disposable than mine. i just cant accept that.
The IsraTrance MySpace Group:
http://groups.myspace.com/isratrance
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