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tecnhical vs creative mastering
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 25, 2007 10:00
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sO YE ,
basically i was just wondering wether the standards of our regular trance releases are at par wit any releases at sony bmg or such .
imho, I have been disappointed to see that the quality of original released Cds are anything but at par wit lets say Gwen stefanis new album .
That brings me to my point , Is it the fact that our mastering is not so pro ?? or maybe its technical mastering, not creative mastering like sir Bob Katz.
Please shed some light on the topic . |
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Seppa
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485
Posted : Sep 25, 2007 10:23
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Its difficult to judge a mastering job without actually hearing the unmastered version of a track.
Many people do their own mastering without real qualification or even the proper equipment and acoustics....
A good mastering engineer will have years of experience as a mixing engineer before even thinking of doing mastering...
.... but I don't think the problem is the mastering, its the mixing....
A track should sound good and proper at the end of mixing stage....
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
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Posted : Sep 25, 2007 10:24
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hmmm i think it starts way before mastering. sound choice, equipment quality, mixing skills and for sure also the mastering.
but don't forget its much easier to deal with vanilla sounds like pop than with blips and scratches.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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Chemogen
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 25, 2007 10:29
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I also wonder about this...It seems that there're so many Psy labels and so many releases because it's not so expensive to fianance an artist who does his own production, mixing and mastering without having to pay a mastering house. Some local producers have told me to work by what sounds good (provided you have a good set of monitors) and not by numbers. |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
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Posted : Sep 25, 2007 10:35
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just want to say also that the fact that in electronics one guy bands are common, is a good thing.
this is what gives us the underground scene and sound.
commercial music produced at an expensive, loaded sexy sony studio with:
3-4 musicians
1-2 producers
2-3 engineers
1 mastering guy
anywhere between 5-10 people on the album... so of course it will sound more proffesional, but there is a lot to be said for the solo electronic producer working out of his ghetto studio too 
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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Seppa
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Posted : Sep 25, 2007 10:45
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Quote:
| anywhere between 5-10 people on the album... so of course it will sound more proffesional, but there is a lot to be said for the solo electronic producer working out of his ghetto studio too |
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Yes of course ! all credit given to the electronic producers out there !  |
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 25, 2007 14:05
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Interesting view points , lemme add in here
If we already have a standpoint of accepting tat most psy producers are frm the ghetto doin their own shit ... Why do we have labels putting in tonnes of their money ( or not ) into collecting not - so - pro music and selling it out in batches of ONLY 1000 copies .
Here comes a point where i start believing there is more money and RESPECT in making other genres of music , let alone the mere proffesionalism u are dealt wit. OFcourse speaking completely again as a ghetto producer .
Instead shudnt we have pro level music released only rather than creating a broadband channel of almost - there tracks ?
then again who decides wat is pro ... ? Psytrance i believe hasnt 'peaked' in its creativity , is wat i infer .
Then again ,isnt mastering supposed to put the almost there sound to out there sound ? |
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 25, 2007 14:09
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another point - final mixes and mastering can not be done at a ghetto studio fr industry level sound .
That can be sure of.
So wat next? are we really accepting that our music is lower in quality than the other music out there ? |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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Posted : Sep 25, 2007 15:23
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yes and no
this is question of money as well.
a standart psytrance label , cannot afford to ask mix and mastering , so artists will do their own mix , and label will pay for (very cheap) mastering.
in house scene or gwen stefani as ur example , are mixed and mastered in the best studios in the world , with the best gear monitors acoustics etc.
u cant expect poor tim shuldt (that master atleats 30% of psytrance realeses today) will do mix and master 9 tracks for price like 400eu or something.
maybe with time peaple get that .. as more u invest in it the more it will sell , so dont wonder why cd u put into it 2000$ sell only 300 copies , when real commercial music put more then 50000$ ... offcourse that will includ advertise and promotion tours , but we are still far from this , more likely there will be gig on the moon then that actualy happens www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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UnderTow
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Posted : Sep 25, 2007 16:19
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I think there are a few things to consider.
First up, although in the minority, there are some very good producers in the psy scene. Not everything sounds bad. We shouldn't forget that.
IMO there are too many labels releasing stuff so there is too much competition. It makes it harder to justify expensive studios (for the producers as well as the mastering engineers) if the sales are going to be very low anyway. But as long as people are buying/listening to the stuff, we can't really blame the labels and/or producers for releasing it.
Psy tracks are longer than your average pop/house track so in theory they should take longer to make. I can easily understand producers getting bored with a track at some point before it is perfectly mixed.
As there is not much money in the scene, producers have small budgets for equipment. (Speakers and room acoustics for instance) This will certainly affect the quality of the mixes.
Psy tracks are usually denser than pop/house tracks. It is much easier to make a clean mix if there are less elements playing at the same time. Also, psy trance has recently fallen victim to the loudness war (just like nearly every other genre). Denser mixes will suffer more from hot levels than sparser mixes.
Relatively speaking, psy trance is a very small scene. I'm sure there is loads and loads of bad quality pop or house being produced. Probably even more than bad psy trance. You just don't get to hear it unless you are deeply into those scenes.
Very few artists have the type of production budget like Gwen Stefani.
Even if you listen to some very successful artists like Tiesto, the sound is nothing to write home about. Mediocre production quality isn't something restricted to psy trance!
Then there is the reason for producing music. IMO if you want to make allot of money, you don't make psy trance. You go for something else (if you can). Psy trance artists might just be having fun in the studio and might be less worried about sound quality. (A pity at times).
As far as technical versus creative mastering, I think that is a red herring. IMO to really be called a mastering engineer, you need to know all the technical aspects and be able to integrate them with your gut feelings about what sounds right. If either the technical or feeling aspects are lacking, you won't be a great mastering engineer.
Having a few plug-ins (or even hardware) does not make you a mastering engineer. Even having all the top gear doesn't make you a mastering engineer if you don't know how to use it and why to use it.
UnderTow |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
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Posted : Sep 25, 2007 17:01
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what i mean by ghetto sound is the fact that when a single person produces everything then his footprint is on every aspect of the material, and in a sense this is true art, rather than a studio album that 10 people are involved in creating...
for example take fatboy slim, a guy that was for a while popular and had a foot both in commercial and in underground scenes. people dont listen to it because it has good or bad sound, they listen to it because its fatboy slim and HIS music HIS production HIS (shitty? or not) mixing skills.... etc.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Sep 25, 2007 17:27
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On 2007-09-25 17:01, faxinadu wrote:
what i mean by ghetto sound is the fact that when a single person produces everything then his footprint is on every aspect of the material, and in a sense this is true art, rather than a studio album that 10 people are involved in creating...
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I don't see producers collaborating, any different to a band. Everyone has their role and leave their personal musical imprint on the music. In pop tunes you have someone writing vocal top lines, instrumentation, arranging, mixing...etc. Its like a band to me, albeit a bit more elaborate band.
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UnderTow
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Posted : Sep 25, 2007 18:19
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I don't see what one person working on a project has to do with ghetto sound. Doesn't Prince play and record all instruments himself?
IMO, the fact that one or 10 people work on a project has no direct bearing on the quality of the music or sound.
UnderTow |
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 25, 2007 18:31
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so right now basically ... wat i infer frm this is that we DO agree we are not at the peak of psytrance ( quality wise ) . Another there are too many labels creating a loudness war !
Solution - Let there b fewer labels ?? and kill the most promising upcoming acts ?
Or to collaborate and make a platform ro decide wats good n wats not ? like a hall of fame or something ... ?
We are completely directionless i must say as far as the industry part of this music is concerned . ! |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
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Posted : Sep 25, 2007 18:45
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On 2007-09-25 18:31, aXis wrote:
so right now basically ... wat i infer frm this is that we DO agree we are not at the peak of psytrance ( quality wise ) .
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I don't know about that. Not everyone is smashing their music. Was the music more original in 1997? Yes I think so. Was it better produced? I don't think so.
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Another there are too many labels creating a loudness war !
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This has always been the case. People were trying to get the hottest levels out of '45's in the old days. It is just that the tools have gotten much more powerful than they ever where and many more people have access to these powerful tools.
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Solution - Let there b fewer labels ?? and kill the most promising upcoming acts ?
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As I said, as long as a label sells their products, we can't blame them even if we don't like their releases.
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Or to collaborate and make a platform ro decide wats good n wats not ? like a hall of fame or something ... ?
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Isn't there a top-10 section somewhere on this forum? Anyway, why do we need to decide? It is just the way things are. If anyone wants to change things, go ahead and make better produced music.
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We are completely directionless i must say as far as the industry part of this music is concerned . !
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Well of course. And so it has always been and so it should always be.
UnderTow |
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