PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 27, 2009 18:25
distotion from compressors pushed hard can give you that dirty techno sound on the drums
Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Jan 27, 2009 18:43
Quote:
On 2009-01-27 17:26, phasetech wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-01-27 14:19, pipe&slippers wrote:
There is no techno tune that has the drive and psychedelic aggressiveness that some trance tunes have, just like there is not trance tune that has the deep vibe and intricate, complex groove that some techno tunes have
Have you ever heard of tech-trance? Some people were doing it for agessss
Yes I am a big X-Dream, The Delta, Spirallianz fan and love my D.Drum vinyl. But that is a different sort, a lot more mechanic, gritty vibe (which I also quite like).
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts
Freeflow
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Posted : Jan 28, 2009 02:17
Quote:
On 2009-01-27 17:52, phasetech wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-01-27 02:54:45, jorge wrote:
hi there , im now more into minimal tech and tech house stuff.
the strucutres of percusion are a little bit different from trance figures isnt it?
any tips?
thankkk you
Yes, rhythmics and percussions are actually a lot different from those used in psytrance tracks. Here are my tips, this is basically some things that i do when i make music you mentioned:
- You need to have a lot of quality drum loops (if possible, lower bmp's like 125-130)
I recommend sample packs from Mutekki Media, awesome quality.
- You need to have a lot of patience for cutting those loops into small repetitive sequences, or if you like you can use some slicing tools (like Disturbance or Slicer in FL studio which is pretty useful)
- When you start a track, first make the basic elements:
* kick - short and punchy with a slight subbass on it
* bass - is probably the most creative part of production cause it can be made out of almost everything.. from various VSTi's like Trilogy, Alien303, Nexus, Octopus and like 100s more of them, to simple sound samples like percussions or drums (i put them on channel with plug-ins like renessaince bass or newb to give them that synthetic bass-boost). Thats the beauty of this music: freedom of creation, and NO MORE fullonish VB!
* rhythmics - the tricky part. the thing that makes every minimal tech tune unique are loops. some people get this kind of music as predictable and boring, repetitive and 'already heard'.. from my point of view, the process of making a tune is something really special, searching for the matching loops, sounds and possible combinations. techno is all in rhythm - you need to make it sound like a machine which is for people to get in and figure out how it works. some tips:
-avoid same patters in whole track (like some sounds playing from beginning to end)
-make a lot of changes. small brakes will help you achieve this. always try to keep the attention of listeners with putting new sounds while the track goes by. the point is to make track interesting for listening.. and dancing to also!
Synth-works are inescapable. Dry kick-bass&rhythm will make your track sound empty and soulless. Make a lead or melody which has its own rhythm.. This will add a lot on dynamics.
Atmospheres are also very important. Uplifters and downlifters will add energy to your tracks, and pads will make it unique.
Hope this helps... All of this i wrote here is a piece of my creation process. Check this out also
Cheers
Very nice track!
phasetech
Float
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Posted : Jan 28, 2009 03:07
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Posted : Jan 28, 2009 16:08
i saw X-dream and The delta @ NYE in Paris, it was real interesting, it wasn't like the dreaded 16th-driven night. I saw GMS too (not the same night) and it was the worst shit i ever heard, with awful remixes of Depeche Mode and things like that...erk.
I was totally psy before but now i'm a lot more in techno, tech-house, breaks and even electro-house : a lot more possibilities when it comes to creation.
There's a few trance artist that still make me piss my pants, like Lost & Found, Absolum...
Psy stuff : myspace.com/neyaprod
Non-psy stuff : myspace.com/cheaperbits
french psy production forum : http://www.hadra.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=18
Kitnam
Mantik
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Posted : Jan 28, 2009 23:01
techno vs trance discussion:
as allready said. there are both bad and good /predictable and not / good production home production tunes in techno and trance, this goes for every genre.
generelly what is meant with "predictable" is probably the thing that a lot techno-tunes are designed as dj tools and are aimed for beeing mixed on 1-2 other tracks.
trance tunes generelly aim more to tell a "story" like you are inside a cinema, there are technotracks which are aiming for the same experiences. the subgenres differ a lot, and also it depends on the time.
last but not least techno has given a lot to trancemusic and trancemusic has given a lot to techno too, not only in a kind music-influence but also scene/party influence.
one example: in trancemusic everyone got his on space on the dancefloor - respect and all that. in a technoclub, hot and full of people your are sometimes dancing close to close allways bit bumped and smell the sweat of the one next to you directly. this is an amazing extatic tribe feeling.
trance has brought a great way of using reverbs/delays and mind-triggering sounds into techno-music and even sometimes the basslines. so its both connected and is refreshing each other.
ontopic:
- short loops, realy short.
- dont try to tell a cinematic story that much.
- get a bit slower, this gives the drums more room
- short breaks, not fades - more cuts
- the drums need to hypnotize and are not there to just be the background singers. they are the main-focus-element.
- hypnotize comes from repetition, over and over again, dont stack elements to much, let it go - a good loop will catch you more and more when its going further and further, then after a lot of time add maybe some little nice and fine element on top, take care of the flow, dont overstress it too much.
- oh and, drumbus-compression is your friend.
jorge
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Posted : Jan 29, 2009 03:11
thank you very much, nice tips.
i used to be a psytrance addict, but i got bored.
minimal tech house is more complex , more ordenated , less chaotic, and more danceable.
it can be very psychedelic too if you know how to produce it.
a nice combination would be: minimal tech percussion, progressive basslines, psychedelic atmospheres, minimal weird leads.
jizy
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Posted : Jan 29, 2009 05:10
Agreed kitnam, yeh i mean psy trance is more of a story of that unknown explanation of life, universe the psycadlic experinance bla bla, where as techno iz more "down to earth" groovy cool kinda approach to life.. eg in ya car driving through the mighty strip in las vagas with the lights from the casinos reflecting down on the bonnet of ya car smokin a cigar.
psy trance iz more of a conversation with a molecular entitie form other dimention that leaves the listener enlightend or whatever.
great track phase - tech
jizy
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Posted : Jan 29, 2009 05:11
Quote:
On 2009-01-29 03:11, jorge wrote:
thank you very much, nice tips.
i used to be a psytrance addict, but i got bored.
minimal tech house is more complex , more ordenated , less chaotic, and more danceable.
it can be very psychedelic too if you know how to produce it.
a nice combination would be: minimal tech percussion, progressive basslines, psychedelic atmospheres, minimal weird leads.
hmm intersting idea, i feel sum insporation comming on jorge
Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 29, 2009 12:03
Hmmm depends what you want to do, really. There is so much room for manoeuvre with techno, especially psy-tekk for example, the old spirallianz sound, or Children of Paradise (yeah, I reckon this is a tech based sound!) or whatever.
So, this is just my personal preference to ideas that work to get a sound I like.
Firstly, I really like percussive elements that are varying, but in a repetitive way, so first things first, dBGlitch is fantastic for techno percs, BUT I stay away from the random button, and use the 'mix' dial! I don't want it to sound glitched. Maybe I'll drop in 4 effects over 4 bars, something like that, nothing overtly 'glitchy'. I often use filters that have random slow LFO patterns - all the better if the LFO is stereo.
I like this way of doing things, because ot provides something variable for the listener to follow, which sounds quasi-random, but is actually very repetitive to work with, in terms of both controlling the mix, and for the listener who is getting analytical, and really into it.
I also like the leads that interact rythmically with each other, so stabs and warbles that bounce of each other, and develop.
And favourite of all. I like to distort a lead which is quite 'chattery', (so 16ths based with quick releases and lots of gaps) with something really agressive like an amp sim, and have it as a real background thing, filtering and pitching in and out, panning around with effects swarming in and out - short delays, phasing - whatever. If I stop this from being really overtly present, I reckon its stuff *like* this which gives real depth to a track - the stuff you don't notice the first time you hear it.
aciduss
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Posted : Jan 31, 2009 03:13
I am a psytrance freak but also really into other genres as i am a natural explorer.
Have found techno to be very "no rules" genre since you can do almost anything with certain order and make it sound techno and good just following must electronika principles.
I like 122-130bpm stuff minimal the most, some melodic some just noisy trippy tracks that make me wonder about groove more and more like some italian stuff and well i am still learning lots of this genre.
I can asure techno is not about great changes and noticeable passages but about: Techno . It goes with this robofeel changing in a mechanical way but still mantaing certain warmness with groove and swingy percussions. I didn't get it before... but then i began to listen and to wonder as i did in psy "how the hell did they do that".
I think most psy producers could benefit from creating some techno beats. I loved black n white's techno track in last album.
The thing i don't like about techno and specially the minimal one is... "the scene" since most techno people seem to be so stuck up just because they know how to enjoy this kind of music... is not like psy where everything is about cosmic connections and a more 'psychedelic' stuff but a more snobish aroma sorrunds the techno scene at least here in Mexico where many of the technoheads used to attend psy parties then they just seem to hate the psy ones since they have ascended in knowledge and understanding of electronic music. Pure bullshit in my opinion but made me think... cause this has been created in order to keep tech parties something much more exclusive and not just a drug mayhem like most psy events, still everybody is doing everything the difference is dancing to vinyls and slower tempos.
Besides i believe techno sells more than psy which is not a point but makes it interesting from a profit/commercial perspective.
Don't try too look at differences... in a way psytrance is techno music too. Try to look at similarities in genres and you can learn to enjoy many sounds even the ones you thought they were boring. Listen to Ticon and Antix that's a nice way for psy ears to enter the techno realms.
Brain Hacked
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Posted : Jan 31, 2009 06:09
I agree with u aciduss, people who listens techno/minimal have snobish attitude in some ways, but the first thing i realized when going to tech/minimal parties is that people really goes to listen to to music or certain dj, doesnt matter if they are hi on some drugs, in psytrance 98% of the people are kids that only want to be as hi as possible with 145-150 bpm beats, no matter who is palying ., of course theres the other 2%. by the way im talking about mexico i dont know how are the parties in other places, but at least here thats what happen.
phasetech
Float
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Posted : Jan 31, 2009 06:58
i really like this topic, and i suggest everyone to leave a link to music you like and style you want to describe, just for better understanding of your thoughts www.soundcloud.com/float
Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Jan 31, 2009 09:13
I shall take this opportunity for some shameless promotion then
The top remix on my myspace player is getting released in a couple of months on Dieb Audio. There's also Drop The Bomb remix which was the last thing I released on british Brighton Breaks and Christina A's remix of B One Of Us that is soon coming out on Colombian Progrezo Recordes. There's also some tech house stuff probably going to Progrezo as well.
