| Author
|
Synth programing: Keeping Volume Constant while automating Filtercuttoff
|
john_c
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
47
Posts :
263
Posted : Aug 15, 2006 19:36
|
So here's a problem I have. I have a nasty patch I made using Z3ta+ and I am automating the filter cutoff pretty agressively in a track. Problem is, when the filter cutoff is pretty low so that the filter is closed, the sound is about 3-4 times quieter than when the cutoff is high or the envelope is opened. Is there a way to linearly decrease the volume as the filter cutoff moves using the Mod-matrix so I dont have to draw many volume automations to keep the sound volume relatively constant? Ive tried with diff routings in the Mod-matrix with no success so far. I thought
*Eg1) (which is the slope of the filter envelope) -> (U-) -> ( Osc Level) would work but it doesnt. Thanks guys. |
|
|
sideFXed
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
430
Posted : Aug 15, 2006 21:00
|
try a compressor with an agressive setting.
first set the threshold and ratio high, adjust attack and release to taste. now reduce the threshold until you get the desired volume on the channel.
a limiter after compression can help further to balance the volume. you don't need a mastering limiter for this btw.
I'd like to hear different approaches. hit me 
 soundcloud.com/epsylohm |
|
|
|
john_c
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
47
Posts :
263
Posted : Aug 15, 2006 21:06
|
|
but see the problem isnt that the synth is too loud when the filter is open. its jsut that when the filter is kinda closed, its way way way too quiet and I dont want to automate my volume constantly as the filter is moving. Wouldnt I be squashing my dynamics if I am fixing the sound at the peak filter cutoff to be squashed down to the previous volume? Im not sure I like this approach as I want to maintain the power of my synth patch. But maybe the compressor wont do this I dont know. Still, there has to be a way to do this using the Mod-matrix because I know you can program higher pitched keys for example, to not be as loud, replicating keyboard tracking, so I dont see why u cant do this with respect to the filter. Thanks for answering... |
|
|
|
sideFXed
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
430
Posted : Aug 15, 2006 21:17
|
I understand where you come from.
you could try to limit the low/high limit of the cutoff and every other param. that's a good feature of z3ta btw. just click the right mouse button on the parameter you want to automate. I'm sure you know that already.
I really don't know what else you could do, as I usually don't have to deal with such problems. I simply program my patches the way I think they fit. If I have big difference in volume I use the previous method to limit the volume. After that I up the volume so that the low volume part is audible.
soundcloud.com/epsylohm |
|
|
|
john_c
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
47
Posts :
263
Posted : Aug 15, 2006 21:35
|
|
side: although im not sure about it, ill try out ur compressing tip and see if i can get it sounding good without ruining my sound. the problem with upping the volume is that as the song is playing, my synth is constantly moving with the filter in many diff sections for many minutes. I have my song very loud and almost clipping so the volume is very delicate here as I am stretching the limits of my headroom. So as you can see, automating the volume manually is a real pain here. Id love the synth to do the work for me. |
|
|
|
psy_tec
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
19
Posted : Aug 15, 2006 21:45
|
|
maybe u could automate the channel volume when the filter makes it quiet
|
|
|
|
Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
3239
Posted : Aug 16, 2006 08:19
|
automating the volume is one solution.
it's a micro editing process - and a little bit time consumig.
john....
compressor brings low and high amplitudes closer together. If your synth will become more quiet overall, you can amplify after the compressor effect. But more important to you, is that the synth will remain in the same amplitude levels more or less in different cut off settings.
Note that there are different compressors, which have more/less features than others. A compressor that can compress only the low levels exists.
When the cutoff of a low pass filter filters out half of the synth 'meat' (it depends what your synth is made of) and if there's nothing from 400hz and down, for example - then no compressor will help ya - to achieve good sounding results, you need a phat synth - which has alot of 'meat' and is wide.
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
|
|
|
WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Aug 16, 2006 09:12
|
2 options u have john .... try 1 or both ...
1. use a compressor to sort out the peaks and raise the quieter sections of the synth ... so that it becomes more even overall ... i have done this before several times with many of my synth patches ... but it ultimately depends on how well u setup your compressor .... if u are very comfortable about this idea , step 2 is a simpler procedure .
2 . bounce your lead , import it on an audio track ... seperate the quieter parts with a scissor and apply gain on them !! viola ! ... u know have an even sounding rifff volume wise !!!
Wavelogix aka Chandan Ssabarwal ! |
|
|
|
texmex
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
189
Posted : Aug 16, 2006 09:35
|
One way would be make mod matrix so that modwheel controls both the cutoff and the volume so that overal volume stays somewhat constant. Might be hard to get right but if you succeed it will be superior to the compressor.
Compression is another, as already mentioned. Try a compressor with sidechain filter that resembles the human hearing. It should help keep the perceived volume constant. I think C1 and the sonalksis comp have such a filter. Adjust the threshold so that it's at the max amplitude of the quiet parts, and use fast attack and long release with high ratio to get it compress anything that goes above that threshold (filter is opened). That's what I have used. If I got it wrong, please tell me.
The release should be long so that the compression wouldn't change during one or more notes (we want to compress the amplitude of notes relative to each other instead of compressing the contents of the note itself). The attack should be so that it doesn't affect the transient of the sound. Using soft knee compressor might help with that (compression starts gradually around the threshold instead of linearly above the threshold).
The problem is that if you twiddle the cutoff very radically (fast from open to closed), the compressor might not be able to cope with it and you might get the pumping effect.
You might get somewhere with multiband compressor too, though it is more useful for keeping high resonance under control. A normal single band compressor would attenuate the whole sound when the cutoff frequency starts to resonate, but with multiband you can isolate the area where the resonance so that the body of the sound stays the same. I haven't used any dynamic eq, but I think this is similar to it. |
|
|
|
bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Aug 16, 2006 09:47
|
|
Just a shot in the dark but u could also use an expander ?? |
|
|
|
Meta
Meta/Boomslang
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
1045
Posted : Aug 16, 2006 10:29
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-08-16 09:12, WAVELOGIX wrote:
2 . bounce your lead , import it on an audio track ... seperate the quieter parts with a scissor and apply gain on them !! viola ! ... u know have an even sounding rifff volume wise !!!
|
|
This seems like the simplest/easiest/easiest on your CPU method suggested thus far.
I'd do it that way, but instead of cutting with scissors and doing a bunch of individual gain changes, I'd do an envelope to make the volume changes... it will be an easy visual reference and the changes will go smoothly instead of sudden gain changes.
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1286/envelopect2.jpg
See?
http://soundcloud.com/aeon604
http://www.metaekstasis.com/
http://the1134.com/ |
|
|
|
texmex
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
189
Posted : Aug 16, 2006 10:42
|
Bukboy, expander is used to expand the dynamics, compressor to compress the dynamics. And here we need to compress (make quiet parts equal to the loud ones).
Normal expander would amplify signal above the threshold and attenuate it below the threshold, thus _expanding_ the dynamics.
Downward expander would attenuate the signal below the threshold, but wouldn't do anything above the threshold, acting like a soft gate.
Upward expander in turn would amplify the signal above the threshold, making loud peaks even more loud.
Then there is upward compression and downward compression. Upward means amplify signal below the threshold and downward means attenuate signal above the threshold. Most compressors are downward compressors, but when you apply post gain, you get something like upward compressor. So generally we just speak of compressors.
It varies quite much what people mean by compression (upward/downward) and expansion (normal/upward/downward) and it is very easy to get confused. Just browse the net. What I explained is just one view
For example, Izotope Ozone has expander unit in it, which can act either downward expander or upward compressor. But it's still called expander
You might ask where one would need expansion. One way is to undo the effect of compressor. They used to do thing called compansion in radio stuff, effectively first COMpressing the signal to stay well above the noise floor and after transmission applying expANSION to the signal to get it to the original state. Undoing the compression might be used in mastering even nowadays, I don't know (client compressing the source material too much, old mixes/masters need to be revitalized etc) |
|
|
|
Dharma Lab
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
342
Posted : Aug 16, 2006 21:27
|
Much like the compressor, you could use a maximizer plugin as well, like Waves L2 or L3 Ultramizer. I've heard mixed reviews of the multi-band version, the Multimizer. It will boost & limit at the same time....
Keep The Faith,
Christian K. |
|
|
|
sideFXed
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
430
Posted : Aug 16, 2006 22:07
|
|
there's a Kjaerhus plugin that features 2 compressors in one plugin. it's ideal for such purposes btw.
soundcloud.com/epsylohm |
|
|
|
bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Aug 17, 2006 10:30
|
totally right tex.
blonde moment |
|
|
|
