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Symbiosis Gathering REVISED!!! September 17-21, 2009 Yosemite, CA
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Alexander
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
205
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 00:55
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It would appear as though some people here are clinging to details and missing the overall picture.
I love Trance, it helps fuel my spirit + soul, enough that I promote it here in Colorado, however there was plenty of Trancemusic at this festival, maybe it could've gone down more at the Lake Stage, but there was plenty of Trance. Judging by the amount, or lack thereof, of people during the full-on hours, the mainstage wouldn't have been the best for that particular genre. The Lake Stage would've been perfect for more of that, however it seems I would have to agree with almost all of what the organizers are saying. We also went excited to hear Trance, but were mentally and spiritually prepared to enjoy the festival as a whole experience, far beyond the reaches and boundaries of music alone.
Make no mistake, if anyone went to this festival with an open attitude about what the intentions truly were, than it delivered beyond expectation, no question. Our little crew from CO enjoyed a multitude of spectacular pieces of culture at this, and from what you all are saying about the cleanup and the and how the venue was left, the people in charge are probably happy, and sounds like it will be there next year, eh?
; )
Loved the Trance, maybe a bit more next time at the Lake Stage, had a blast For Treavor at 3:30 the lake, all the way until Perfect Stranger at the field.
We will, for certain, be there, with more people from our region looking for a wonderful experience next year.
Thank you and many blessings from Colorado.
-A
  <~/ALEXANDER\~>
www.paradigmpro.us |
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bephree
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
54
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 01:38
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Sure I can tell the difference between psy and progressive. Is it out of place to post events that have progressive acts on Isratrance? I didn't think the only focus of this list was psy... Will you say that those who listen to progressive are not trancers? Am I out of the club because we emphasized prog instead of psy? This sounds more like segregation to me than what Symbiosis creates.
I hear you... they are not the same genre and we had less concentration of psytrance at this years Symbiosis. Agreed. I never claimed that Symbiosis is a psytrance event, only that we had a good chunk of trance and if my memory suits me, progressive trance IS trance.
I have no problem with critiquing the lineup. I just don't appreciate being lectured that we are OPPRESSING trancers or that this event was TAKEN OVER from the trancers. It wasn't. If you want to talk about Gratitude, talk to Tony or Paul. If this was Gratitude, we would probably call it Gratitude.
Its not. This is Symbiosis and Symbiosis is a trans-genre trans-discipline, trans-clique, trans-formative trans-festival.
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| Very segregated, I almost felt like a black man, in the 50's at this party. |
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This an offensive innuendo from someone who bailed on the very person he was pumped to see.
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| Kox Box as the only brought in act to headline for the trancers. |
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You can critique the lineup all you want and if the lineup doesn't suit you, I understand. Don't, however, separate the prog trancers from the psy trancers and then accuse Symbiosis of segregation when we are trying to bring the trancers together....
If your message is "I would like to see more Psytrance"... super... Consider the message firmly entrenched in the suggestion box.
If you have something else to say, please let me know. I'm curious how it looked from the other side... |
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saintcarl
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
209
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 03:00
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I am curious who is bephree real name?
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If you have something else to say, please let me know. I'm curious how it looked from the other side...
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paradigm
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
54
Posts :
1098
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 04:05
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Ok Bephree, here it comes...
First off...
I DID NOT BAIL ON GIVING KOX BOX A RIDE...
the org, mistakenly put my departure time down wrong. I needed to be home in SF by midnight, not leave site at midnight. Further more, from the out set i informed the org that i could not put up Kox Box for the night untill his flight, and that he would need alternate arrangements, or a airport hotel. Not my problem you guys neglected this.
Sunday eve, i spent nearly 3 hours chasing down and trying to locate
any one of command authority who could help with this. Guess what? Not a single one of you was on radio. Not a one of you. I tracked Frankie down to his accomodations, told him i was leaving. He expressed concerns of having to stay over 7 hours at the airport, and informed me hed rather stay and get a later ride if possible. I returned to the "artist relations" cabin, and was told by the 2 girls staffing there (who seemed to be the only crew doing anything at this point), that id done what i could and was dismissed.
So dont get mad at me on that, you guys dropped the ball. Not I.
Additionally, i busted my ass on friday to make sure Yotopia got to the festival, as their ride no-showed on them. So actually, i brought 2 acts to the event. I think that covers my ass more than enough.
Now on to my rebutal....
Not sure where to start.. but you sure seem to be personally offended at the critism of a event. Step back for a second.
Ill address the prog vs psytrance argument first.
With the exception of Ace Ventura and Quantize, that was the only progressive with leanings and roots in psy trance.
SCS, Shawdow-Fx, etc etc... tho loved and enjoyed by trancers are much more house and minimal than trance. While im not dissing the selection of progressive... it was far more progressive minimal and house, than progressive trance.
If trance was not segregated? Then why with the exception of the sunday morning progressive, and Treavor, and Kox Box..
were we stuck in the back corner, with the crappiest dance floor, and smallest sound system, and weakest deco.
The "sub stage" was by far the weakest and most half assed of the stages. I dont think a single person can argue that fact.
Why?
and also why the derogitory name of "sub stage"
submissive perhaps? Is something being implied here.
It really does feel like you guys tried to sweep us under the rug into the back corner.
Also while im on the subject... why did LA psy djs outnumber the SF ones by more than double?
Dont get me wrong here, i love my so-cal homies, and they throw down just as well as any of us up north... but for a fest whose roots are decidly nor-cal..... why no local love?
and speaking of roots. The first Symbiois, was promoted (at least to the trance scene) as a Goa Play event, and the continuation of what was started at Gratitude.
I will admit, that none of the subsequent events were promoted like that, but the seed had been planted. With booking acts over the years like Ticon, Pixel and Protoculture... it pretty much meant the trancers would come in force, and that relation would exist in our mindset for at least a time.
So please... dont bull shit us about the events intentions. It may not have ever been intended as a trance event, but, it sure as hell was promoted as one the first year.
As for the trancers being the haters and not the dub steppers.
HA!!
I dare you to walk on to the dance floor with Bassnectar playing, dressed in full fluro. I dare you. Then come back and tell me who is the hater.
I heard numerous times over the weekend...
"I dont understand this trance music, why do they even have it here"
or my favorite one... "You trancers shouldnt have a full sound system, they should just let you play your music from a nice car stereo"
Where as our dancefloor is welcoming to anyone who wants to get down... be they clad in pounds of dead animal, or neon plastic bracelets. Just dance. Thats all we ask. Were there to get down, not to be seen. We just ask the same when your on our floor.
Just dont hate on us, or our music, cause then we get uppity.
So there you have it...
I will half way apologize for my minor racially tinged sarcastic comment...
i questiond whether or not i should put it,
Curious to see what tomorrow brings in posts...
and Bephree, you seem to be personally offended by me, and in directly insulting me on open forum..
well with out taking my self to your level, id love to continue this argument in private
Logical Light Music - SF
Straylight Productions -SF
Sound/Mind - Denver
Xcience - Midwest
mixes for dl at :
http://www.thehothouse.net/straylight/paradigm/index.htm
"He who ha-ha's last, ha-ha's best" |
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Alexander
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
205
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 04:48
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I'm only gonna argue that Shadow FX, Perfect Stranger, Sun Control are, most certinly, NOT House.
That is still a progressive, Psychedelic sound, only they happen to usually play between the 130-137 BPM range.
<~/ALEXANDER\~>
www.paradigmpro.us |
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Future Nurses
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
4
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 05:59
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I am a little taken aback by all this, I came to read some reviews and this thread was really hard to read. All I have to say is people are free to throw any kind of events they like, and folks are free to go or not. it's that simple. If you wish to influence a promoter the best way is to talk to them, face to face or on email but in a way that they can listen. With kindness and intelligence is the best way and without all the emotion. It's hard to hear a message that sounds like it's being shouted.
thats my thoughts anyway. People are free to express themselves anyway they see fit really but if you want to create change the best way to do that is with intelligence and kindness. |
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aastral
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
136
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 06:12
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Generally I keep to myself about these types of matters but Symbiosis was such a transformational event for me that I feel I must add to this conversation.
I worked harder for this event than any other event including BOOM, dug deeper into my stores of energy and honestly it paid off. We all did this on the crew and we did it with love and respect not only to each other but to the people attending the event. After witnessing such strength of character and vision from the organizers as a first time crew member I am shocked that the primary issue being discussed here is the amount of trance played at this event. I am sorry but I am a long time trancer and if you know me at all you know this to be true....die freakin hard.....BUT it is not the only thing of importance at an event of this nature. The larger picture is the vision of the organizers and the participation of the people interested in that same vision. If the organizers vision is not to make this a one genre focused event or to offer some of one genre and a predominant amount of another genre or to change it all together and only offer 80 hits it is their choice. It is after all a manifestation of their vision that gets this things off the ground to begin with.....if anyone choosing to attend with fair notice of who will be playing what feels cheated than I would have to say that they should have done their research better and take control of their own destiny.
In addition just to put this in a bit better perspective....there were thousands of people at this event. It encompassed so many varied lifestyles that I ran into to old friends from past my music scenes on several occasions and I am quite sure that happened to others as well....so if in the end the connections that were made improved the lives of the many I am more than happy to see that it is only the few who are perhaps dissatisfied with their own choices that sit at their computers to complain.....
Last but not least let me say publicly that last week I feel as though I witnessed more beauty in one place than i have seen anywhere at a festival in this country. It was over the top and all done with genuinely good intentions and THAT is what its all about if you ask me .... no elitists, no all night one music, no barriers, just a straight up good energy flow all around. It was there for the taking if you were open to it for sure! |
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Fu Hsi
Perfect Stranger
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
235
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 06:15
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Nice to see that even 6000 miles away from home, these uber deep debates of who is psy enough or who isn't, are completely the same. Unfortunately I didn't catch Bassnectar playing, but for me he was the best act on Rainbow Serpent, and I don't give a flying f%^K that he doesn't have 4 kicks with same intervals between them in one bar. He makes good music period.
Festivals are events where its not about the names that play on stage but about the crowd that colours them and makes the vibe and the heart of the festival.
This is my point of view in general about this discussion.
PS: If I made house music I was much more satisfied financially than I am now. Or maybe that means that I make a C.R.A.P House music???? 
http://perfectlystrange.com |
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bephree
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
54
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 06:16
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I'm definitely not offended by criticism of the event. What I am offended by is the insinuation that Symbiosis treats any one group like second class citizens. I couldn't stand it in 2007 and I can't stand it now.
http://people.tribe.net/trix/blog/4299e2d5-26ec-4cd0-a1f3-944bb0008beb
You critique of the music is valid. Okay... Its not psytrance. I would say that Iboga records is generally progressive trance but if you want to say that its progressive minimal, I think you are splitting hairs, but you have a right to your musical opinion.
The segregation thing? 12 hours on the Sub stage, 6 hours on the Lake stage, and 6 hours on the Field stage... including ALL PRIME HOURS ON SUNDAY? How is this segregated? The field stage was only open for 30 hours so trance was 20% of the largest venue!
We moved it around. Why? So it WOULDN'T be segregated. So no one could just post up and say "This is MY stage. You guys are at MY stage." ITS ALL OUR STAGES.
You ask why don't we just GIVE you a stage... What does that mean? We produce festivals, we are not a soup kitchen.
Weak deco? You are taking a dig at the folks that set up the stage. They are my teammates and I thought the Sub stage was cool. Have you been to trance parties? Did it look like trance deco? Are you unhappy with how trance deco looks?
Booking acts like Ticon? What is Ticon? He sure isn't psytrance.
How about booking Ace Venutra, Atmos, Hallucinogen, KoxBox, Perfect Stranger, Quanitize, Shadow FX and Tetrameth, Yotopia, Emok and Flowjob (canceled and it broke my heart).
Aren't these acts comparable to Protoculture, Ticon, and Pixel? Are you complaining of a bait and switch? I would have to say that we have stayed with the ratios. We had around 24 hours of trance programming. It may not have been as psy heavy but it was trance in our book. We may have different tastes and I can understand that.
However, to tell me that we are treating a class of people like second class citizens IS and insult and I do take that personally, because I know what it takes to make this happen and our production team is doing nothing except thinking about other people.
Nothing will ever be as it was. And if you are so bent on "bringing back the good old days" I highly recommend you to produce a festival. Its truly a trip. Hook up Gratutide part two. I wasn't there. I heard it was epic. Lets live out the good old days. I'll buy a presale right now!
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| As for the trancers being the haters and not the dub steppers.
HA!! |
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I said nothing of the sort. I said...
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| Remember... the only person that segregated you IS YOU! We welcome you to come to any stage at any time and IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE ANY OTHER MUSIC, THEN YOU ARE SEGREGATING YOURSELF. |
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I never said trancers segregated anyone. Why would I say that? I'm saying if you can't listen to any other music you are segregating yourself.
How much dubstep was there? 6 hours? (Maybe you could say 4 but Mimosa and Heyoka aren't really dubstep) There was at least 2 times and maybe 4 times as much trance!
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| I dare you to walk on to the dance floor with Bassnectar playing, dressed in full fluro. I dare you. Then come back and tell me who is the hater. |
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Why would I wear full floro? Its not my vibe. I wear crop circles and I will walk anywhere. Even though they wear animal parts the feather/leather don't bite. People give it so much power by thinking it matters. Who cares what they are wearing? I just don't understand caring so much. Do you think a girl is hot and you want to talk to her? This is the same thing that they were talking about in 2007 and I still just don't get it. Do you think they are stuck up? Maybe! Don't hang out with them or maybe do. It seems so high school and I pray that we get over that.
http://people.tribe.net/trix/blog/4299e2d5-26ec-4cd0-a1f3-944bb0008beb
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| I heard numerous times over the weekend... "I dont understand this trance music, why do they even have it here"or my favorite one... "You trancers shouldnt have a full sound system, they should just let you play your music from a nice car stereo" |
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Why are you so hurt that someone doesn't understand trance (like you and I for that matter don't understand dub-step) and how can you judge Symbiosis by what someone who bought a ticket said about trance? WE BOOKED HALF OF IBOGA RECORDS! Is it our fault that they don't really play your kind of trance anymore?
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| Where as our dancefloor is welcoming to anyone who wants to get down... be they clad in pounds of dead animal, or neon plastic bracelets. Just dance. Thats all we ask. Were there to get down, not to be seen. We just ask the same when your on our floor. |
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Why does this have to be all possessive? Why is it your dancefloor? Because its YOUR music? Is it my dance floor because I produce the event? NO! Its ALWAYS OUR DANCEFLOOR! THAT'S THE POINT and whenever we start dividing up when the dancefloor is mine or when then dancefloor is yours THAT'S WHEN WE ARE SEGREGATING!
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| well with out taking my self to your level, id love to continue this argument in private
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I don't know what this means but I would just like to be ON THE LEVEL. I'm not bullshitting. I'm down for the cause and our organization is down for the cause. As I mentioned before, the cause is not just to enter into bliss and check out, it is to have some fun, evolve, understand, empathize, create community, and to hold one another accountable to uphold our community, because without our community, things would get pretty boring.
I am one of a team and we made something special happen. We plan on doing courses, workshops, and events all into the future. We have plans and we are excited to participate in their development. Question our music selection all day long. No problem. Don't, however, question our integrity.
No likey, likey...
I hope you got a chance to experience something besides the music. If you need me on the site I'm Kevin on the radio. I'll be on Parking... |
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Meta
Meta/Boomslang
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
1045
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 07:10
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On 2009-09-25 06:16, bephree wrote:
Nothing will ever be as it was. And if you are so bent on "bringing back the good old days" I highly recommend you to produce a festival. Its truly a trip. Hook up Gratutide part two. I wasn't there. I heard it was epic. Lets live out the good old days. I'll buy a presale right now!
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Err... hold on, correct me if I read things in this thread wrong... have both Zarait or Bephree never attended Gemini? This... really needs to be corrected.
Gemini is a much much smaller, free party so of course the production is nowhere near the same magnificent looking scale of Symbiosis, but I think the unspoken thing amongst the die hard psytrancers, both those that criticized Symbiosis and those that had kind words but for fest but still quietly wished there was more psy, is that Gemini creates a remarkably balanced cross section of all the subgenres of the current trance scene. Prog, Full On and Neuro/Nightime acts from all over the country are invited to play.
I think after experiencing such a balanced sampling of music @ Gemini this year, a lot of people in the trance scene somewhat subconsciously expect other larger festivals to be able to do the same thing in their trance stage/area/whatever, while of course a larger festival would also showcase dubstep and other popular kinds of modern dance music on other big stages.
Whether that's a fair expectation or not is another opportunity for... spirited debate, but if I'm correct that neither of you guys have even BEEN to this years-long-running free party, please... it's held every year in June. We'd love to have you there.
Maybe it will inspire you to book a greater variety of psytrance, maybe it won't, but I think you'll at least have a better idea of where people in the trance scene are coming from, and if we are going to be part of your demographic that supports Symbiosis with ticket sales, that's a good thing.
http://soundcloud.com/aeon604
http://www.metaekstasis.com/
http://the1134.com/ |
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acplaughs
Started Topics :
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98
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 07:46
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Funny how aesthetic can keep people from intermingling/dancing etc etc... I felt out of fashion from time to time in San Fran and Nor Cal in general, frankly your coast has a much higher emphasis on clothing and such than anywhere in the US. BUT, my nerdy unfashionable nature and my dissonance with any music played in my travels on that coast were easily overridden by the beautiful connections and experiences I had that transcended base aesthetic sensibilities. |
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Eli Rata
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
5
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 08:06
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This Deja vu has triggered many thoughts..
Congratulations on this amazing endeavor!
I admire your rationally opinionated stance.
Keep with it.
Eli Desiderata. |
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kahn
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
99
Posts :
786
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 09:23
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On 2009-09-25 06:15, Fu Hsi wrote:
Nice to see that even 6000 miles away from home, these uber deep debates of who is psy enough or who isn't, are completely the same. Unfortunately I didn't catch Bassnectar playing, but for me he was the best act on Rainbow Serpent, and I don't give a flying f%^K that he doesn't have 4 kicks with same intervals between them in one bar. He makes good music period.
Festivals are events where its not about the names that play on stage but about the crowd that colours them and makes the vibe and the heart of the festival.
This is my point of view in general about this discussion.
PS: If I made house music I was much more satisfied financially than I am now. Or maybe that means that I make a C.R.A.P House music????
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I didn't know you posted here! 
Well I'm certainty glad. I'm a big fan of your music (and play your tracks a lot when I DJ proggy stuff). I didn't go the Symbiosis, but you were one of the main reasons I wanted to. 
http://www.soundcloud.com/djKAHN |
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bephree
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
54
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 10:11
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I've just heard of Gemini from some SF kids I met at Universo. I've been in the thick of it so I wasn't able to go this year but I have it on my calendar for 2010. I've heard Belden is great. Thanks for the invite... |
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PsyCore
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
499
Posted : Sep 25, 2009 10:54
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Quote:
| I dare you to walk on to the dance floor with Bassnectar playing, dressed in full fluro. |
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The next time I have an opportunity, consider it done. And not just because you dared me.
I have wanted to hold my tongue on this topic for quite a while, but I was actually there. So I will say a bit.
Enough has been said already about some of the SNAFUs that happened as far as admission. I was made to leave my car on the side of the road from 3am on Sat morning until 9am or so because of a locked gate. I got over it. I just got my bracelet and the other person in my car had to pay fullprice (refunded later!) for a bracelet because NOONE was there with an artist list, and the artist relations people were all passed out. FWIW, Megan had been up for more than a day so she deserved the snooze. Who was her backup/alternate shift? I know a few artists who just WALKED INTO the party as a result of this. Nothing to see here, move along.
We made it into the party, and walked allllll the way across the fest and made it in time for Penta!! The stage was ROCKING. I was amazed at the Alt stage having maybe 100 people, but they were going NUTS! The Deco was pretty good, but the lighting was AMAZING! No complaints at all. It was more than a bit dusty, but you cant win em all. We did have bright-ass lights from the Field Stage being assembled - and come to think of it, if the gate had been open, we would have had car headlights facing us every minute for all the people coming in, as the Alt Stage dancefloor was facing the big parking lot.
Gatto was great, Flip Flop was freakin rad, Chromatone delivered awesomeness as usual, and I'm way glad AndyKuda made it. I enjoyed a bunch of trancers doing their thing, and people who heard the audio and wandered over to see what we were doing. I believe this was my favorite part of the whole party.
I then went to move my car, and had a very strange time driving through the party to that field parking lot. I was asked MORE THAN ONCE to pay a parking fee, for having less than three people. I countered that the other two were partying, even though I only had one person in my car upon arrival, and that I thought it was ludicrous that I was delayed for so long with the car situation only to be asked for more money!
I asked about car camping, and was told $60 - even with the inconvenience - and when I thought about paying, I was told there were no more car camping passes. So I drove to the field. Meh. Somehow I ended up WITH my car in Dali camp.
Saturday day was AWESOME. It felt like I was still on the playa, vibewise. I wandered around a lot and enjoyed all the artwork and the stage setups (Lake Stage was the DoLab camp from BMan!) I even struck up some conversations with the feather/leather types, and once I mentioned that I normally come for trance, but was pleased to be part of something so much larger, it felt like I just gave myself a scarlet letter. "Oh, you listen to... trance? Why? You should try dubstep, its SOOOO much better."
You're right, they ARE accepting, but not before putting my genre-of-choice down.
I had a fantastic time watching people dressed like vagrants and hobos, knowing full well how much the outfits cost. At what point does counter culture become mainstream, when more than 60% of a festival are conformist with their dress? It was still nice to look at - kind of like going to Disneyland and enjoying the guy in the Mickey, Donald Duck and Goofy costumes. Neat to see, awe inspiring, but you wouldn't do it yourself.
I really dont want to get on a feather/leather rant. Gosh the term already sounds cliche.
I spent the rest of Saturday wandering around hanging out with friends and checking out Yotopia at the Lake Stage, then some dinner and CocoRosie. I passed out after this (AND MISSED LES CLAYPOOL!! #@%$ IT TO %^$@!!) but was woken up by a friend just as Koxbox went on.
THE LAKE STAGE AT THIS POINT WAS PHENOMENAL. The lighting was absolutely killer. Koxbox followed by Hallucinogen was great. The Field Stage was behind a bit in time, so I got to watch Sentient/TreavorMT tagteam and rock the lake. Quite nice.
After breakfast, went to the Field Stage to get Shpongled. Glad he had new material this time. Dunno if that last sentence was sarcasm. Had a nice time watching Alex Grey paint to Simon Posford. Didnt expect that coming. It was a nice consolation prize for not being able to see Alex Grey speak the night before.
As soon as Shpongle was done, I could almost hear people stampeding away from the Field Stage. Like they wouldnt even give 10 minutes of Ace Ventura a shot. "Hmm, I like the movie, I have no idea what this guy sounds like, maybe I'll give it a listen?" Nope. Nada. Within 15 minutes of Ace going on, I could recognize over half the faces on the dancefloor. This is bittersweet.
Ace Ventura IMO is progressive with a FullOn edge. It still has that thickness while being slower than trance. I really thought it would help bridge the gap, but people have to give it a shot first. I realized quickly that maybe having 25% of the dancefloor from just 20 min prior meant more room to dance around. The glass is half full.
ShadowFX and Tetrameth were fucking killer, though I think they might have been better placed AFTER SunControlSpecies (who was one of my favorites of SG06!!). I was super stoked to see Tetrameth wearing a Mr Bungle shirt!! I had to leave around 330 during Atmos - which means I missed "Perfect Stranger and the Flaming Bass Bin". Hah, that sounds like a Harry Potter title.
TL;DR - The festival location, layout, deco and overall vibe was FUCKING AMAZING. I wasn't sure if it was going to be worth the price of admission, but I am WAY glad I went - even if only for 36 hours. I have my gripes and my grins, and I keep telling myself that if it WERE perfect, it would be impossible to make it better for next year.
Perhaps they'll book me. (I play trance!) |
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