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Surround Mixing studio?
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krazycid
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
57
Posted : Sep 18, 2007 10:23
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Imagine you had to setup a protools and logic based studio on a budget that supported surround mixing with the ability to do automated panning around the surround space... whats the minimum gear you would need?... what gear would u idealy like to have in here?.. everything from consoles/control surfaces to interfaces , monitors , computers, cables connectors.... everything?
  trancedance-harddance-crazydance-monkeydance-peacedance-active meditation-takesyoutoanotherleveldance |
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serotonot
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
114
Posted : Sep 18, 2007 10:32
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Humm. Basically some stuff about surround mixing...
It's just an enhanced stereo more or less. Of course you can do small panning effects around the system but basically every meaningful sound has to come from front speakers.
This is because of the way the 5.1 (and 4.1) systems are being set up. Speakers in the back (called Surround Left & Right) are on lower volume on these systems and used mainly to make the psychoacustic space bigger with delays, echos and reverbs.
Also if you do a surround mix, remember to cut the low freqs off and drop the high-mids also quite much in order to make the mix work. And also be delicate with the use of center speaker.
It's hard to say what budget u need for that, as it depends what kind of gear u want.
What u need is 3 main speakers (L C R), LFE (subwoofer speaker for Low Frequency Effects, not to be used like subwoofer in the mixes!) and 2 smaller speakers in the back.
And of course u need a soundcard with 6 outputs and cables from outputs to speakers.
After u get the setup done, get a SPL meter and setup your speakers and other gear correctly with test signals. Those, and a nice setup guide you can find from Blue Sky's homepages for example
http://www.abluesky.com/asp/catalogue/catalogue.asp?linkid=143 |
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krazycid
Started Topics :
4
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57
Posted : Sep 18, 2007 10:51
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Thanks for that Serotonot  some really helpful stuff on the bluesky site.
was thinking a budget of around $50,000 AUD.... looking to setup a commercial studio not limited to psytrance ... but maybe doing some post production work for film and mastering DVD audio but the primary function of the studio being mixing earlier recorded sessions in surround...
trancedance-harddance-crazydance-monkeydance-peacedance-active meditation-takesyoutoanotherleveldance |
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serotonot
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
114
Posted : Sep 18, 2007 11:03
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I don't know how those AUDs compare to euros or american dollars but choosing gear is of course greatly a matter of taste.
Besides your gear you of course have to make sure you get a proper acoustic treatment for your studio because without that, you don't get all out of your equipment.
I guess all the "big ones" (cubase, logic, pro tools) are capable of surround mixing. We've used Pro Tools in our school and it works nicely for surround stuff and recording, but I hate it's midi capabilities.
One thing with Pro Tools is the need of Digidesign hardware... That hardware won't work properly with any other DAW. At least with my experience. We have also Logic and Cubase in our school's studios but we are encountering problems all the time when using some other DAW than PT because the drivers just don't work properly, so if you are planning on making a commercial studio with fully working equipment it's one thing to put your mind into. |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
Posts :
2822
Posted : Sep 18, 2007 12:53
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Have a search for thi ITU-R BS 755-1 surround recommendations...about how to set up a suuround studio..like monitors etc...thats industrial standart.. i only got the information in german but you will find something if you really try..or pm to them directly..
http://www.itu.int/net/home/index.aspx
they will help you..but its quite difficult to fullfill all the recommms...so you should hab´ve a 40qm room..guess thats the most difficult point..but i dont know how proffesional you would like to step in..so check it out and see what you can do..
hope that helps..
greez mark
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
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2822
Posted : Sep 18, 2007 13:11
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good luck to you...
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krazycid
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
57
Posted : Sep 19, 2007 11:48
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thanks for all the help guys.... acoustic treatment is definitely high on the list of priorities boom .. more feedback on the subject is more than welcome...
trancedance-harddance-crazydance-monkeydance-peacedance-active meditation-takesyoutoanotherleveldance |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Sep 20, 2007 20:30
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You need 5 speakers of the same brand with the same power, make sure the surround left and right are NOT smaller than front speakers. Make sure you shoot thespl on those speakers, a general db setup could be:
Left, right , centre, 80 db, lfe 85db, rear speakers 77db from where your ears are...hey need to be the same. + 1 subwoofer. Furthermore you will need Pro Tools HD (only HD has 5.1 capability..., and a Pro Tools Mixing console to properly pan + Ethernet cable to connect the console to your computer and xlr cables for your speakers. A bassmanagement box would also be a great addition.... It is not just the pan you need to take care of, the reverb and delays are equally important. Instead of cutting the low frequs, try to play with the control and see how much of the signal you want to come out of the sub... the same goes for all other speakers. And no, it is not just mere stereo panning. There is a lot more involved, especially when making sound to a picture. The vocals usually come out the center, music out of sub, left and right and music or soundfx can generally come out anywhere. There is no rule of thumb for that though... try to find an old Pro tools 24 console on ebay, sometimes they are pretty cheap, (less than $1000). Thus said, I am on my way to the studio now as I am mixing the sound for a short film, 1 of my own music traxx included, imo it could well be the way of the future...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Sep 21, 2007 08:07
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With an amount of 50 grand you might be able to get Pro Tools HD,
a Pro Control Main Mixing Console, an edit console as well as 2 faderbanks if you shop cleverly. Of course you will also need at least 1, better 2 i/o's and. Lets not forget a bass management box, a bunch of good cables and and and. Unfortunately dididesign has to be bought with hardware, that makes it more expensive. Since you do want to work in post production I would say it is necessary as it is primarily used in the movie industry.
If you can make the budget around 70.000 you might be able to get a fully professional studio with all the Hard and software you need, as well as a room that is sound proofed. That includes a dolby surround encoder and decoder plugin (you should always use a decoder as well to make sure your mix sounds good when converted back to stereo...
Surround mixing is great fun and I am happy I can sometimes utilize technology on that level...
veeery addictive !
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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krazycid
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
57
Posted : Sep 22, 2007 20:02
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Cheers Upavas....some very usefull info there.. u might want to check this out www.neyrinck.com .... is a surround panner plug in for le... can be used with an mbox2 pro or digi 003...;-) might find it usefull.. since u are addicted (as i am) to mixing in surround... also checked out ur myspace .... some sweet beats there man... keep it up
trancedance-harddance-crazydance-monkeydance-peacedance-active meditation-takesyoutoanotherleveldance |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Sep 23, 2007 03:01
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That Plugin is far out man. Nice one. Got to get it
I want to make a Full on Party happen with an exclusive surround system sometime... something I have been dreaming for a long time. There is just so little time and then there is the money factor... I think 1 big one would change the Psy party landscape for good as there is so much more that can be done than on the usual parties...
to really make sound fly around your ears, fully 3 dimensionally...
of course it also would require that the artists have their sound mixed in 5.1, which could well be done...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
Posts :
2822
Posted : Sep 23, 2007 07:32
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Man you got way too much worries!!!
dont give a shit about protools...get a native nuendo or cubase or logic and you will be fine for what you are planning to do..for your paty..think about ableton live..as soon as you are family with it you will see so much possibs..hat nobody has to mix in 5.1 for a party...promise...but develop man..its boring just to tell you..so you have to find out...
greeeeeeeeeeeeez
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Sep 23, 2007 08:27
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It's not worries... just a lot of fun! As a matter of fact I use FL studio for music and it suits me well. As far as possibilities in the mixing realm are concerned and all the sync issues in post production, Pro Tools is the way to go for ME, that goes for 5.1 as well... especially for 5.1!
I do like ableton as well by the way.
Pro tools is pretty shitty as far as midi is concerned, so I like to use FL as standalone, and then import the finished split mixer traxx into PT... for the mixxx
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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krazycid
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
57
Posted : Sep 24, 2007 18:47
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To each his own man... but ya... logic studio is also now offering surround mixing Upavas man party in surround sounds insaneeee... something iv been dreaming about for a while now also... Alcomic u really think a party in surround would be boring???!?!?!?!?! sure one will have a limited sweet spot to fully experience the effects of surround... but dude... think about it man...it would be one hell of a sonic feast and a crazeeee ride!! ... its already happening man..ppl have started experimenting... fo shure protools not the greatest for midi and electronic music but... hehehe this could go on forever....Boom!
trancedance-harddance-crazydance-monkeydance-peacedance-active meditation-takesyoutoanotherleveldance |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
Posts :
2822
Posted : Sep 24, 2007 19:39
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No man..you didn`t get me right...i know its damn crazy to have a party with special 3d effects...but i said he should check out ableton and its routing possibilities...so you can use ableton to perform in surround...ok not real surround but quadrafonic...with no lfe channel and ok one speaker less...but still you can do filtersweeps around the speakers and stuff like that..you just have to use two amplifiers and a mixer with subgroups on a party like that..that is what i mean...its boring just to tell how it could work...but its definatly not boring to enjoy something like this or actualy perform....
i`ve been to a festival with this kind of perfrmance...like fullmoon and indian spirit in 2004..
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