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Sudden loudness after a brake
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
Started Topics :
127
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1132
Posted : Oct 15, 2008 14:51:26
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Imagine such a kind of brake in a track:
Fade-out... => 1 second of silence... => BOOM!BOOM!BOOM!(a lot of sounds, incl. kick and bass start playing at the same time)
How do you process such transients, to keep the BOOMBOOM sound "sudden" and loud, but without damaging your ears? 
If you do nothing special, such sudden loud sounds in most cases will sound bad, especially after master-limiting
If you use fades, it can help, but still doesn't soud perfect in most cases. (Only finding super-sweet-spot for thó lenght of the fade can do the trick).
So, in most cases, when I fail to make such transition sound good, I add some fade-in sound just before the BOOM!BOOM!, this way ears have a little time to get ready for the loud part. But what if I want a pure silence just before the loud part?
How do you work around such situation?
  http://soundcloud.com/aedem |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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162
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8087
Posted : Oct 15, 2008 19:11
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here it sound good when i do that , i even lower the volume of some sounds in purpose to have a big dynamic change after the break . |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 15, 2008 19:21
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Maybe I didn´t get your point Medea...
Do u mean that u still need some "faded out" sounds at the "total silence" part to make the back sound ok(arrangement issue imo)?? Or the problem is only about the sound???
For me, hardest thing is to sequence in a clever way, that even with the silence, the audience kind of know what will come after(I mean, not a cliche thing, but not a total weird come back). And in fact, when I do it, I want the BOOMBOOM sounding sudden and loud! 
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
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Posted : Oct 15, 2008 20:38
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I'm talking about the sound only, but sound and arrangement aren't the things that are intersecting a lot
So, when I can't fix the unpleasant hit of a big amount af loud soudns with fades, I change the arrangement.
Btw, I've developed the problem a bit deeper, and now i can say that the unpleasant effect comes mostly from hi-frequency sounds. So, if your BOOM starts with something that hase more low freqs, it will sound better, even if the first hi-freq sound is delayaed a few milliseconds...
http://soundcloud.com/aedem |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 15, 2008 21:48
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I´m still confused... When u say "even if the first hi-freq sound is delayaed a few milliseconds...", do u mean that u have some plugins at your master out, that do it?? Cause I can´t figure how u have this delayed HF sounds...
Maybe I´m not getting the picture of the arrange... That´s what I see: I imagine the main break, a short silence, then the main come back(with full kick/bass/drums/synths/fx´s lines). And u say that at BOOM, u have some unpleasent effect... Is it right?
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
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Posted : Oct 15, 2008 21:55
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Okay, take any track, open it it soundforge, select a short region and mute it. Does the moment when the sound starts, after muted region, is pleasant for your ears?
I guess no. And trying to figure out, why
And i'm supposing that it's unpleasant because of sudden hi-frequency components that hit your ears.
http://soundcloud.com/aedem |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 15, 2008 22:22
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Got it.
Can be the HF content, that can cause stress...
But this case, I guess it´s due to the fact that it´s just an unharmonic "on/off/on". Maybe at this situtation your brain cannot estimate what comes next(nor your imagination), and sudden HF hits could annoys the ears at that moment. Few milisecs later it´s good!
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piko_bianko
Oxya
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57
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974
Posted : Oct 15, 2008 22:50
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u could add a ~50ms bassboosted 'wup' just before the first kick.
fade in,
same peak with kick.
it helps ears+brain to percept accending rms, so the SMASSHHHH becomes friendlier to ears
extreme |
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Upavas
Upavas
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150
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Posted : Oct 15, 2008 22:54
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I am with Piko, it is often good to layer sounds and you can make it a bit more gradual so the ears have a slower increase of spl. Another possibility is to automate with eq, lets say a lowpass or highpass filter that gradually disapears, you would still get most of the transient I suppose but it would be a bit more subtle...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
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http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 15, 2008 23:46
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It really matters what you're trying to accomplish with the passage - not all passages that do the fade-out, silence, full blast thing are created equal.
In minimal structures, a passage could be just a chord with a delay, letting the delay fade out, and then simply starting up with a kick, bass and effect (done to great effect by Cosma for instance). Cutting the silence with a certain effect, a filtered part of a drumloop, and the same passage is instantly made for a high energy full-on sequence. Or just play the percussion highpassed in the background during the break, and it's now officially techtrance. If the mixdown of the track is solid, all of these should sound just fine.
Your question has too many right answers to it... could you narrow it down or give an mp3 sample?
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
Started Topics :
111
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1748
Posted : Oct 16, 2008 00:53
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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1490
Posted : Oct 16, 2008 08:04
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Quote:
| and then simply starting up with a kick, bass and effect (done to great effect by Cosma for instance). |
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Hey Kaz, would you mind explaining what kind of effect, do you talk about fx over the bassline? |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
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104
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Posted : Oct 16, 2008 19:28
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Quote:
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On 2008-10-15 23:46, Kaz wrote:
If the mixdown of the track is solid, all of these should sound just fine.
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+1. But all the examples has no silence before the BOOMBOOM. And, as far as I got the point, the problem occurs when there´s full silence than a huge come back, which, from Medea point of view, is not so good for his ears.
@aciduss: I guess kaz is talking about tracks like People on Hold or Nonstop, wich main break is very minimal, and there´s not so many layers before the BOOM.
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charles7
IsraTrance Junior Member
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49
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101
Posted : Jul 25, 2009 05:28
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Think also you are searching for a rythm to follow on the track, if theres siolence you lose track of the rythm and have to start again (unless the silence is quite short) a good trick i sometimes do is put a delay on the last sound you hear before the track stops, and once the delay has almost faded to complete silence, drop back in...keeps something there for the listener to follow. not quite as dramatic as a complete silence i know, but still works nicely. Best example i can think is 'ace ventura' tune 'the spark' around 4 or 5 minutes track stops and the K_BB is pan delayed, then suddenly delay stops and tune drops back in. For me this is one of the best drops i have heard (for my tastes anyway) |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
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5306
Posted : Jul 25, 2009 14:55
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