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Sub bass
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Audioholic
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Posted : Jun 6, 2008 15:23
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i dont know whats ur problem, but i am not a charlatan. And this PM was for u personally i didnt want to bother other readers with HiFi discussions here. Sorry, but it seems u have serious problems, i just tried to make a statement that i am not any newbie or HiFi nonfactor like you.
Again the HiFi HIGH-END Scene is very complicated and after 30 years working in it, i know what i say.
End of discussion here!
sorry again for that to all other readers, i will not defend myself.
Use my advices and discuss with a decent respect or ..
  Admin and Speakerdesigner at
http://www.AudioVideoForum.de |
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Psytracked
Inactive User
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424
Posted : Jun 6, 2008 15:23
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Psytracked
Inactive User
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424
Posted : Jun 6, 2008 15:28
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What front end you running?
and I worked for Meridian, Mission and b&W, you know who they are don't you.......
I have come from the audiophile world and now work in the music industry........production and audiophile perspectives can be very different things.
We can all put 25 hz into our tracks so some dude with too much money can heat it on his REL sub but not when that is at the expense of the other 99.999999% of listeners who wont have that shit.
many of the guys and girls on this forum will not have the equipment to make sound judgments in those frequencies.
Now as one audiophile buff to another, what front end are you running?
http://www.whatacunt.co.uk/ |
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psytendo
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Posted : Jun 6, 2008 15:38
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On 2008-06-06 14:55, Psytracked wrote:
well actually even open space can throw a spanner in the works.......ever been to a festival and heard the PA from the distance.....the highs.........at night.....
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Heh, yeah, wind and local turbulence bubbles are realy trippy 
But back on topic,
What i'm trying to say is that the effect you heared in the anechoic chamber is not as simple or common as you would let us think.
The point is, i think, that air has several ways of propagating and transfering energy.
There are near field effects, there are mid field effects and there are far field effects.
The effect you are talking about is just a subset of how energy can be propagated through air under certain circumstances.
In that case it would be difficult to make a cone resonate the air at any frequency low enough, but one could force it (with lets say servo's).
Then you would see that you could do a local measurement of the source and this measurement would yield the frequency of the tone played back. Furthermore, this measurement would be distorted because there is too much space around it!!
So in fact the space could be too big for certain low freq energy transfers through air.
This is contrary to what you say.
Another interesting example is the stethoscope.
When 'plugged in' it acts as a single system with the biggest dimention being somewhere between 0.5 and 1 meter.
This would suggest that no wave energy could be transfered through it below, say 320Hz~640Hz.
Measurements say otherwise. In fact freqs as low as 10Hz are transfered through this closed system.
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Audioholic
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Posted : Jun 6, 2008 15:46
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i had a nice dinner long time ago with Mr Farad Azima once here in Germany. Our discussion abt Life and Music was very nice, he came to visit me...
ask him ..
and again, maybe u didnt understand, i dont need any further proof of my competence....
but it seems u are that "wannabe" Audiospecialist...
now, stop that conversation here, and dont bother other readers.
Admin and Speakerdesigner at
http://www.AudioVideoForum.de |
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Psytracked
Inactive User
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Posted : Jun 6, 2008 15:51
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lol.......you won't hear it though.....of course when one understands how the chain of vibrating particles is set in motion it is easy to understand that your example is a good one and in my view correct......but it doesn't mean that we actually will perceive pitch.
Theres acoustics and theres psychoacoustics.
http://www.whatacunt.co.uk/ |
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Psytracked
Inactive User
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424
Posted : Jun 6, 2008 15:55
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Audioholic
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Posted : Jun 6, 2008 15:59
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psytendo u come close to the facts...
Another thing to remind is called "Fletcher Munson curve" abt listening to Bass and HEARING Bass...
pls read that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves
simplified:
a microphone is Linear, our EARS are NOT linear, that why we like a +6dB Bass and treble...
In all living rooms ur woofers get a boost of atleast +6db from surrounding walls, so no doubt, even with my 20 Liter 2Way speakers u can easily hear 30 Hz in a 25sqm room...
NOT Chairshaking but u can hear it... i have lots of users in my Forum that can witness what is say.
Just use a 30Hz sine wave and hear it with 2-5Watts maximum, with a medium speakerdesign u can hear that for shure. Get em to ur Toilet u can hear 30 Hz again!
F.I. any Behringer 2031 or similar cheap monitor will do it.
Again its NOT that 105 db i can do with my 4x 11" Inch woofers at 100+Watts.
Admin and Speakerdesigner at
http://www.AudioVideoForum.de |
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psytendo
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jun 6, 2008 16:03
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but it doesn't mean that we actually will perceive pitch.
Theres acoustics and theres psychoacoustics.
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Right,
And you just switched from acoustics to psychoacoustics because you lost the argument and want to run away.
let me quote you:
", but half the wavelength of the sound has to fit into the room in order for you to perceive it."
Here you are talking about an acoustical phenomenon, not a psychoacoustical one.
We would not hear very low frequencies because our ears just would not pich them up. But that doesnt mean the frequency is not able to propagate, which is basically what you said.
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Psytracked
Inactive User
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424
Posted : Jun 6, 2008 16:08
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with all your experience you quoted wikipedia
pmsl
+6dB is the boundary effect, didn't wiki mention that.......but of course it depends on positioning.
having a pair of 2031 I can tell you that they wont produce 30 Hz.
http://www.whatacunt.co.uk/ |
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Psytracked
Inactive User
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424
Posted : Jun 6, 2008 16:10
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Quote:
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On 2008-06-06 16:03, psytendo wrote:
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but it doesn't mean that we actually will perceive pitch.
Theres acoustics and theres psychoacoustics.
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Right,
And you just switched from acoustics to psychoacoustics because you lost the argument and want to run away.
let me quote you:
", but half the wavelength of the sound has to fit into the room in order for you to perceive it."
Here you are talking about an acoustical phenomenon, not a psychoacoustical one.
We would not hear very low frequencies because our ears just would not pich them up. But that doesnt mean the frequency is not able to propagate, which is basically what you said.
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I defiantly used the word perceived........I really really did.......at no time have I said that the wave wont exist........and just one more time I defiantly used the word perceived.. you even quoted it!!!!
http://www.whatacunt.co.uk/ |
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psytendo
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jun 6, 2008 16:16
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Yes, that's another thing, but it has mostly to do with how loudness works compared to pressure.
I thought we were discussing the physical properties of transducing mechanical energy at low frequencies through small spaces, no? ..
But psychoacoustics is a nice topic as well
All kinds of stuff starts happening there.
Even better, try neuroacoustics! |
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Psytracked
Inactive User
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Posted : Jun 6, 2008 16:19
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so you think sub bass is only about "physical properties of transducing mechanical energy at low frequencies through small spaces" and that psychoacoustics don't come in to it?
please correct me if I am wrong
http://www.whatacunt.co.uk/ |
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psytendo
Started Topics :
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73
Posted : Jun 6, 2008 16:24
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I defiantly used the word perceived........I really really did.......at no time have I said that the wave wont exist........and just one more time I defiantly used the word perceived.. you even quoted it!!!!
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Yes but you said the same thing about a stethoscope which would mean you would not perceive freqs below 300Hz if you listen to a stethoscope.
Since you can hear freqs well below 300Hz on a stethoscope it means that your story about not being able to perceive freqs with 1/2 lambda of the space is utter crap.
And its nice of you to use the word perceive but the half wavelength thing is not an psychoacoustical phenomenon but a regular acoustical one.
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Psytracked
Inactive User
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Posted : Jun 6, 2008 16:26
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