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Sub bass
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JUGGERNAUT
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
111
Posted : Jun 5, 2008 05:44:48
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Im just curious, why use sub bass if you cut tracks at 40-50hz anyway? wouldnt that just filter it out? thanx |
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Psytracked
Inactive User
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
424
Posted : Jun 5, 2008 06:21
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People seem to have a different idea of what sub bass is.
I have heard many people talk as if it below 20Hz (our average lower end limit of frequency perception. But below this range is actually called infra sound.
Think of subwoofers.....that where I think it comes from. Basically below about 90Hz. Smaller speakers, crappy HIFI things won't go much below 80Hz so a sub bass with no overtones is going to be a problem. It is rare that a PA will go below 40Hz. There are home cinema sub woofers that go below 20Hz, the more expensive ones, but half the wavelength of the sound has to fit into the room in order for you to perceive it.
 http://www.whatacunt.co.uk/ |
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piko_bianko
Oxya
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
974
Posted : Jun 5, 2008 06:39
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i believe when we refer to sub bass frequency range used in electronic music we mean 35-45hz to about 200hz
so you have almost 2 perfectly perceivable bass octaves running through your subwoofer 
extreme |
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klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
1153
Posted : Jun 5, 2008 10:01
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i believe when we refer to sub bass frequency range used in electronic music we mean 35-45hz to about 200hz
so you have almost 2 perfectly perceivable bass octaves running through your subwoofer
hmm
firstly: my subwoofer cuts off everything above 60hz.. if i adjust the cutting freq to 200hz it just sounds rubbish.. i think everything below 100hzísh is not locatable from humans, so if you cut above that you won´t be able to say where the sub sits, which is what you want!
secondly: in a track, you can have 2 baselines, one with peka wobbling around say 100-150hz and another one, say around 30-80hz... and thats what i would say is the subbass region.....
listen to a full on baseline versus a drum´n bass track and you hear the difference
@juggernaut. if you cut your music at 50hz you kill it... unless you want to have a very plastic sounding mix.. the lower end gives natural sounding to a mix. even if it takes away your perceived mixing loudness |
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piko_bianko
Oxya
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
974
Posted : Jun 5, 2008 10:08
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i think many ppl in this forum do locate frequencies between 45-100.. sometimes very precisely too.
bad monitoring is a bad factor on identifying this range.
extreme |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Jun 5, 2008 10:26
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A couple of things.
To me sub bass is usually below 40 or 30 Hz. Maybe even lower. It is supposed to be felt more than heard. On a big PA (that can play back very low frequencies) you certainly feel these subs. Maybe my definition isn't quite the same as the accepted norms. I am not sure really but I do know that The Prodigy tour with servo driven subs that are tuned at 16 Hz. (They are not allowed to use them in many countries as they are illegal but that is another story).
The original research at AT&T that has more or less determined all the familiar frequencies (like the 20Khz upper limit etc) concluded that we can't localise sounds below 80 Hz. More recent research has put that frequency quite a bit lower (I can't remember the exact number). There are a few studios I work in that have a sub that isn't centred in the room. These subs have a 80Hz low-pass filter. In these studios I can usually feel that the bass is pulling to one side.
Psytracked, "the wave has to fit in the room" is a myth. A 50 Hz tone has a wavelength of 6.7 meters. I can guarantee you that I can hear sounds below 50Hz in my home studio and it isn't 6.7 meters deep.
UnderTow |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Jun 5, 2008 10:34
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id reken sub is below 60hz or so , but many will say 80hz as well...
alot of subwoofers will give you to choose from 50hz to 150hz crossover point
once it coming to harsh multiband compression then i know 80hz is too much , but 60hz give me perfect control of sub vs bass
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gutter
Inactive User
Started Topics :
54
Posts :
3018
Posted : Jun 5, 2008 10:43
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subwoofers range are from 20hz -to about 150hz (or lower)
most of the bass fundamental notes thats used are from 32 to 50-55 hz ,, so u cut below the fundamental frequency of your note ,,not on it
and more often boost on the first harmonic of your fundamental cause this helps the human brain perceive the lower(in volume) frequency better, its about psychoacoustics ,in this way our brain recreate this frequency without hearing it
F1=43,65 --F2 on 87,3 Hz -- F3 174Hz
all these frequencies belong to the sub area (F3 not so)
as piko_bianko wrote u can have almost two perfectly perceived octaves
check this table for help(useful for EQing also)
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html
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piko_bianko
Oxya
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
974
Posted : Jun 5, 2008 11:06
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Psytracked
Inactive User
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
424
Posted : Jun 6, 2008 03:20
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Quote:
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On 2008-06-05 10:26, UnderTow wrote:
A couple of things.
To me sub bass is usually below 40 or 30 Hz. Maybe even lower. It is supposed to be felt more than heard. On a big PA (that can play back very low frequencies) you certainly feel these subs. Maybe my definition isn't quite the same as the accepted norms. I am not sure really but I do know that The Prodigy tour with servo driven subs that are tuned at 16 Hz. (They are not allowed to use them in many countries as they are illegal but that is another story).
The original research at AT&T that has more or less determined all the familiar frequencies (like the 20Khz upper limit etc) concluded that we can't localise sounds below 80 Hz. More recent research has put that frequency quite a bit lower (I can't remember the exact number). There are a few studios I work in that have a sub that isn't centred in the room. These subs have a 80Hz low-pass filter. In these studios I can usually feel that the bass is pulling to one side.
Psytracked, "the wave has to fit in the room" is a myth. A 50 Hz tone has a wavelength of 6.7 meters. I can guarantee you that I can hear sounds below 50Hz in my home studio and it isn't 6.7 meters deep.
UnderTow
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Most PA don't go that low......they really don't and the measurements given are usually -10dB roll off as opposed to -3dB.
http://www.whatacunt.co.uk/ |
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Psytracked
Inactive User
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
424
Posted : Jun 6, 2008 03:22
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Quote:
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On 2008-06-05 10:08, piko_bianko wrote:
i think many ppl in this forum do locate frequencies between 45-100.. sometimes very precisely too.
bad monitoring is a bad factor on identifying this range.
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those frequencies are more likely to be a problem because of the room as opposed to the actual monitors.
http://www.whatacunt.co.uk/ |
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Psytracked
Inactive User
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
424
Posted : Jun 6, 2008 03:27
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Quote:
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On 2008-06-05 10:26, UnderTow wrote:
A couple of things.
To me sub bass is usually below 40 or 30 Hz. Maybe even lower. It is supposed to be felt more than heard. On a big PA (that can play back very low frequencies) you certainly feel these subs. Maybe my definition isn't quite the same as the accepted norms. I am not sure really but I do know that The Prodigy tour with servo driven subs that are tuned at 16 Hz. (They are not allowed to use them in many countries as they are illegal but that is another story).
The original research at AT&T that has more or less determined all the familiar frequencies (like the 20Khz upper limit etc) concluded that we can't localise sounds below 80 Hz. More recent research has put that frequency quite a bit lower (I can't remember the exact number). There are a few studios I work in that have a sub that isn't centred in the room. These subs have a 80Hz low-pass filter. In these studios I can usually feel that the bass is pulling to one side.
Psytracked, "the wave has to fit in the room" is a myth. A 50 Hz tone has a wavelength of 6.7 meters. I can guarantee you that I can hear sounds below 50Hz in my home studio and it isn't 6.7 meters deep.
UnderTow
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bless 
home studio.....you are probably hearing the harmonics or standing mode resonances...I have been fortunate enough to have been in an anechoic chamber and, from first hand experience, not just my University text books, can say that you my friend are speaking out your ass.
peace be with you
P.S. you should go and join Speakafreaka in the fat kick thread, you 2 will get along very well.
http://www.whatacunt.co.uk/ |
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piko_bianko
Oxya
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
974
Posted : Jun 6, 2008 05:45
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"you are speaking out your ass" i reckon it's a very scientific proof..
are University textbooks written in such language ?
extreme |
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Jun 6, 2008 10:02
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On 2008-06-05 06:21, Psytracked wrote:
but half the wavelength of the sound has to fit into the room in order for you to perceive it.
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No, it will just bounce back and forth creating standing waves.
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Psytracked
Inactive User
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
424
Posted : Jun 6, 2008 10:17
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Quote:
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On 2008-06-06 10:02, Mike A wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-06-05 06:21, Psytracked wrote:
but half the wavelength of the sound has to fit into the room in order for you to perceive it.
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No, it will just bounce back and forth creating standing waves.
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yes an axial standing mode in tune to the length/width/depth of the room, but how does that change my point?
http://www.whatacunt.co.uk/ |
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