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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Jan 31, 2005 16:30
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Wave - Here's a sample of kick and bass (with some other elements to put them in perspective). http://filebox.vt.edu/users/amarano/Snippet.mp3 and the EQ settings I used on that bass/kick combo. http://filebox.vt.edu/users/amarano/kick%20and%20bass%20EQ.jpg It's an mp3, so there's a little loss of quality, but it should give you an idea.
Normally I'd cut more on the kick, but this one didn't really need it so I just did some slicing around the first few octaves on the kick (EQ point 3, 2, and 4) to create my 'hole' and then boosted the bass in the same region (EQ point 6). There's also a lot of selective EQing to get rid of nasty resonances (let's me bring the volumes up).
I also have a SLIGHT amount of sidechaining going on (a ratio of around 1.2), just in case my bass and kick coincide.
Billy - I should be more clear, I don't cut *everything* above 260Hz. Rather, I start EQing more aggressively as a lot of the upper tones will only make my bass sound muddy rather than punchy. I prefer to do this with the filter, so in the EQ I just kind of roll off around 500Hz. The filter cutoff on my bass syth is set to around 283 with a little bit of velocity to get it to 'bounce' some. So on harder hits it opens up more and gives some upper tones.
My approach is to have the bass provide the 'thunk' of a track from 70-250Hz or so, and then give it enough presence around 1k to be heard. But I want my leads and FX doing most of the work above 250, so as long as it's audible I'll leave it down there.
I should note that I don't have a PA to listen to this on, so I don't know if I've cut too much low-end off the bass. Before I was cutting this much I couldn't listen to a track in my car without the speakers farting with distortion, and this seemed to solve that problem. Given what I have to listen to it on (Event TR8 monitors, car, cheapy boombox) it sounds pretty good, and for right now I will mix with whatever I have available to judge it by.
peace,
-Alex |
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Jan 31, 2005 21:18
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well mate , heard ur clip and very honestly ... the kik bass dont sound great enuff ... even more that i would like to comment is that ... im soo surprised to see you use 10 band para eq's on the kik and bass ... which are simply not needed imo ... i mix my trks and dont use than 4 bands of eq on any channel !
less the eq , better the sound ... |
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billy ambulance
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
43
Posts :
560
Posted : Feb 1, 2005 10:58
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fuzzikitten, your so afraid of this kick&bass issue!
the eq you open is just sucking the life of your sound!
dont cut too much cuz your parts will sound "filtered".
try to use the EQ more gently and also provide some boosts.
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Feb 2, 2005 10:45
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Hi Fuzzi,
I agree with the other posts. With eq, less is definately more. Especially with your bassline. I don't know if what i do with my bassline is good practice, but i usually only roll off the extreme low end below 30-40 Hz. And i sometimes put an eq-dip on my bass-sound in the the main low frequency area of the kick. Also, a gentle dip in the area between 100 and 300 Hz. can really help to lose some 'mud'. But i only do it when there's a problem, not as a habit.
But choosing the right kick, and tweaking your synth filters, envelopes and programming can prevent most problems that would lead to excessive eq-ing. So spending more time on choosing the right starting material will almost always result in a better sound.
The same goes for compression of basslines. I used to compress my bass-sound a lot and never quite got the sound i wanted (learned a lot about compression in the process tho  ). Then i realized that i could get a better sound by putting the 'sustain' part of the amp envelope of my bass-synth to max and tweak the note-length in my sequencer until it sounded right (without snap to grid enabled). When it sounds right, i drop the level of sustain part of my amp-env a bit and i play with the 'decay' parameter to get a nice attack on my bass sound. You get almost the same effect you achieve with compression, but it sounds way better.
Of course most of you already know this, but for me it was a revelation Eureka ! Whoohahaha ! |
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Feb 2, 2005 14:05
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thanks for the advice boobytrip, I'll try to focus more on getting the proper sound in the synth than with EQ. |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Feb 2, 2005 14:27
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i think in the end it all comes down to a matter of taste...
recently i started using the filter on my bass more open and it sounds better because of higher content
i just make sure it doesn't clash with anything else...
in a way, i found the more i cut in the low freqs (for the bass) the better the track will sound |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Feb 2, 2005 14:44
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@sy000321
What monitors are you using, and if you do have fullrange monitors, is your room treated to deal with low frequencies.
Of course most people will not listen on perfect systems in perfect conditions.
It's up to you if you think it's ok that people with good systems will find your tracks lacking in depth.
PA systems normally have a HPF around 37hz, and above that I would for sure not use a HPF filter myself when mixing or mastering unless there was a problem with the low frequencies.
It's of course a matter of taste, and I prefer a fat and deep sound myself rather than a clean and sterile.
But keep in mind that you should be very careful with cutting away sound that you might not hear on your monitors or get a problem with due to bad acoustics.
 (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Feb 2, 2005 14:48
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i have lousy hi-fi speackers but i do the "try your sound everywhere" routine
cars, clubs, hi-fis, friends monitors, everywhere
anyway, i hope to get decent monitors soon (adams)
i know my mixes are not 100% correct (maybe not even 50%)... i'm still learning, but i learn fast 
just recently, one track wich sounded fine at home, distorted badly on systems with a subwoofer... now i've learnt tp compensate for that (cut the damm lower freqs)
with a not to steep curve, you still get some low freqs to flavor the sound |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Feb 2, 2005 18:09
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Feb 2, 2005 18:16
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i know a name for the music that technique might create silent ambient
music you can fell, but hardly listen... |
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sonik_akb
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
221
Posted : Feb 2, 2005 19:15
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Well, I'm still learning to mix sounds on my tracks, but I've been reading a lot of foruns, articles and books for about 6 months, so here go my contribution...
I understand that the cut-boost EQ procedure will depend of the sound you want, and of course, the nature of sound used for bass and kick. I think the better way for me is to use the 'Waves PAZ Analyzer' (or other spectrum analizer) and understand the spectrum of the bass and Kick, i.e. the place where the bass and kick stay and see (graphically) if they fight each other on some frequency. If they fight, so I will to separate these sounds using the 'Waves Q10' (or any other EQ tool will make the job as well) and the procedure CUT-BOOST. For example, the kick in Euro-Trance tracks (something like Lasgo, Ian Van Dahl etc.) stay on the 30-80 Hz range with a little presence around the 200 Hz and 3KHz area for the click of the kick (attack). Experiment to see this as well. Ah, and the sub-bass is very important for them. A lot of club remixes have some boost around this range in order to make the people not only hear the kick, but feel them as well. Nowadays, psy-trance kicks don't have much bottom-end in the kick after the click, while some euro-trance kicks have a long sustain with sub-bass (it's common to put 3 or 4 kicks on layer, using a TR808 kick which has much bottom-end with others more EQing).
So, if you hear and see 'graphically' on PAZ Analyzer that your kick stays on 40-70Hz range (maybe with one peak on 60 Hz), you will cut some dB's from your bass exactly on this range too, and any other conflict area with the kick. They won't compete for the same range frequency anymore. Bass can stay on the 90-200 Hz range, but I would safely cut around the 250-1000 Hz range (the 250-800 Hz is called 'muddiness area' and they cause problems for the mixing step, mainly for bass and kick). My advice is: you should know exactly the sounds you came up with or are using (in the case of the samples, loops etc.). After that, apply cut or boosts in order to make your track more interesting (you know, there are two EQ school for EQing: 1. Less is more, i.e. boosts will make the sound 'artificial'; 2. Boosts in the creative way; i.e. don't worry about the boosts some freqs.) The most important thing is: you should worry about all of the instruments used on your track. The EQing step takes into consideration all instruments, so you should find spaces for each instrument used on your track.
In my actual opinion, the 20-125 Hz range should be only used by kick and bass, so I could put a High Pass Filter for other elements on the mix (a lot of people make that, including people from this forum). I could put the kick as the main actor below 100 Hz and the bass below 200-250 Hz, and some small boost on the 1-5 KHz for each one of them (what will depend of the sound to be created, of course). Rick Snoman wrote the Hit-Hat dominate the 8-12 KHz, so I have tried a boost of 3 dB around 9-12 KHz and cut around the 5 KHz . They sounds OK for me. Snare drums have a wide range of freq., so I use to put a HPF on 250 Hz or 500 Hz for it, but it depends (a small boost around 1-5 KHz can make the SD sounds better). Short bass and panning on the percussion elements can help your mix as well. EQ isn't your only tool for create a clear mix.
Ah, this EQ table can be very interesting:
http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/eq/2.asp
And this is very important: use a 'real' monitor in order to listen the EQ/compress modifications on your mix, not home speakers. I use a Sansom 65 active, Yamaha NS10 and Pioneer HDJ1000 headphones (for some remixing stuff).
alex keller.
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sonik_akb
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
221
Posted : Feb 4, 2005 05:01
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