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Special Bulletin to DJs: You are NOT the band
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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355
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 07:53
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I don't know how anyone who is a musician can disagree with this, unless they aspire to cut their losses and become a DJ, or unless they're just being antithetical. Anyway, what is up with this semi-recent trend of DJs slapping their names over extended "mixes" where they put other people's music end to end?
What, is it that difficult, unusual, or extraordinary such that the guy(s) who spent probably 72 hours in the studio writing the track don't deserve any of the attention or promotion? Or are the songs so played out that everyone is just supposed to know what they all are?
On numerous occasions, I have been listening to some various trance channels which shall remain nameless, and I hear a bang-up track. I think, "man, I need to buy this" so I click on the winamp icon, only to see the name of the DJ displayed instead. Hoser.
How delusional can we get here? You're not a rockstar, you're a DJ, and you promote musicians, and the symbiosis that occurs between producers and DJs operates as such: musicians work hard to give you free music, you make your name by promoting it, you both make money. Not by developing delusions of grandeur and taking cash and credit away from the guys who keep you in the booth. How are they supposed to make money if you don't even let people know who they are? This is also rampant with live venue DJs who go out of their way to have a dazzling web presence, but who don't even bother publish setlists. They use musicians like food. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. It's no wonder there are fewer touring acts now than ever before, the growing tide of narcissist DJs are soaking up all the credit, and going way over the line. Have some respect.
I respect tons of DJs, and I know some really great ones, without whom none of the promotion we see could be possible. That's the point of the whole musician/DJ "symbiosis." But these days, there are more and more who, well...they just need to be kicked out and sent home to pose in the mirror or something.
When was the last time you saw a rock concert where the promoter didn't even announce the band, and perhaps jumped up on stage in the middle of a song and started going "look at me! look at me!" Why is it ok to do this in dance music? Especially since the music takes a lot longer to produce?
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InnerAlchemy
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54
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 13:29
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Very true! I agree 100%. And it is not only that DJs adorn themselves with borrowed plumes, many of them don't do a good job neither. They show the same egoistic and ignorant behaviour towards the crowd on the dancefloor. They just do their thing and ignore the reaction of the people. I saw this kinda situation very often: music totally boring (but probably easy to mix ;-(...people on the dancefloor moving stereotype without inspiration....lots of people just standing or sitting around the floor looking really bored...plus, lots of people actually complaining about the music....no smiles, no energy....
But the DJ just continues his boring set for hours....totally uninspired....probably just waiting to hide in backstage and sniff some more cocaine...
I'm sorry I have to say that but I often thought that the party might be better without the DJ....a nice mixtape would have done a better job! ;-)
Of course this is not meant as an gerneralisation...even I know some really good DJs 
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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355
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 16:02
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There is a relatively widely used investment/business term called "barriers to entry" which I believe explains this problem. Barriers to entry are:
"Circumstances particular to a given industry that create disadvantages for new competitors attempting to enter the market. These may include government regulations, economic factors, and marketing conditions."
Before the net existed as a peer to peer tool as well as a research/communications tool, a DJ was a music *fanatic.* He had to have at least 100 or more CDs/LPs to be taken seriously, which probably amounted to at least a $10,000 investment. (Some DJs I know have 2000-3000.) Anybody willing to invest that much money into a hobby obviously took it very seriously, and was zealous about finding and promoting bands. Additionally, the DJ had to get on snail mail lists, do mail orders, and LICK STAMPS just to find the music he wanted. It was real. It took effort. These people had passion.
The world is not like that now. The average upstart DJ can acquire decks for under $300, and a vast musical collection of 192k/256k mp3s for $0. Now of course, no DJ spends $0 on music (hopefully) but it is far easier to sound more obscure and versed. Emailing bands for promos is trivially easy, knowledge of previously obscure topics is one google away, and that which was had by mail order previously can now be had with "one click ordering."
It is not the fault if the individuals, in other words, so much as a sociological byproduct of the barrier being lowered. The barrier drops, and more spray gets over the wall, diluting the pool of good DJs and making it hard to distinguish posers and decoys from the true fanatics. Production has gotten the same way. And there is nothing that can really be done about it, the future is doomed to suck. Have a nice day. 
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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1142
Posted : Apr 18, 2005 21:51
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br0d, couldn't resist to drop in this thread...
i understand your values and your grief...
Still, as times change old values go away and newer ones appear...
It's true that before the internet things were mush more difficult... i've never been a DJ but i've been on mailling lists for BD, CD and other forms of art... they all gone away btw.
Maybe if it weren't for the internet there wasn't a global psytrance scene like there is today...
For me it would have been very hard to achieve some of the skills i've aquired in music production if it wasn't for foruns (although i'm producing maybe for four years and using foruns actively for -1 year)
Still today there's much more wana be DJs than there was a decade ago so supposedly DJs have to be much better now (or much more connected).
In 10 years or the DJ scene totally disappears... if it's so easy to be one anyone can do it... fuck... even a machine can do it then... or DJs will have to grow some kind of values to explain why the party promoter should hire them and not the other guy... (or just a winamp, media player doing a random playlist)
Notice taht today radio DJs are usually just playing the radios playlist and doing lttle more (off course not ALL radios... 99%)
joao
 roll a joint or STFU :) |
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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355
Posted : Apr 19, 2005 07:44
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Related to the point you made, what's going to happen when the last remaining 5 people in the world who are not yet DJs become DJs, and truly "anyone can do it?" At this point, automatic beatmatching and free downloading make it such that anyone who wants a bit of easy status can start DJing, if he/she schmoozes a promoter, so is there really anyone who CAN'T DJ at this point?
IMO the title is meaningless unless some of the following conditions are true:
-The DJ is remixing, or producing.
-The DJ is either buying lots of music, or actively soliciting promos and white labels, and then PLAYING them.
-The DJ is aggressively researching new music.
-The DJ is also a promoter, and has given birth to a new night or event.
-The DJ seeks to actively educate the listener base in the new music he/she has found.
In other words, what value do they add, above and beyond their ability to pick from a pool of accepted songs (like some kid making a mixtape) and play politics? I think this is an imporant thing for DJs to keep in mind, do the job justice. Else they ought to be DJing weddings and bar mitzvahs, and not in a progressive music scene. |
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fregle
IsraTrance Junior Member
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11
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982
Posted : Apr 20, 2005 21:07
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i agree with u guys that these days there are lot's of dj's who don't do enough effort anymore...
But i will not give in to the notion that there is no use for dj's anymore... Nor will i admit that anybody can be a good dj.... Anybody can be a dj, that's true (the techniques required to start out are incredibly easy to learn), but a good dj is much more, like br0d's list points out so nicely and correctly (although i don't think dj's should be organisers of events per se).
I think that every decent dj still buys his music (in fact, it's getting more and more rare that i catch people spinning illegal copies), because we like the feel of a real cd, because we like to have a big collection, and out of basic respect for the producers/labels we love so much.
Also, u can always ASK for the playlist, no dj minds posting it, i can only speak for myself, but as a dj i try my absolute best to promote artists that i like, especially new artists/labels who don't have a very known name, simply because i would like everybody to listen to that music and enjoy it, and i understand that almost nobody wants to spend hour after hour ploughing through releases looking for that 1 good release from a label/artist nobody ever heard of (example: i promoted kemic-al's album to everybody who wanted to listen, most of them never heard of the name or the label, lot's of them liked it after i made them listen to it...).
The net makes things really easy, that's true, but it has positive sides too... More people are able to get into it, and so more good dj's will come out in the long run, the bad ones will disappear in the long run, because after a while u get exposed for what u are.
As with everything in life, with dj's it's no different, the few rotten apples make the whole basket look like shit, but it's not the case, there are still dj's who are very serious about they're work, and we should respect them for it instead of calling them fakes.
I can only speak for myself, but i spend hours and hours to find the music i need (the net makes it easier but it doesnt find them for me...), i order all around the world to get those releases and sometimes i pay silly money just to get 1 cd. I spend hours preparing a set so i won't fuck up the energy curve and i always look at the dj's before and after me to make sure i don't sound to much out of tune. And if u want to know what i just spinned, just ask!! i'm always willing to tell u what it was. I'm not even a sociallite (if it wasn't for the guys from materia prima here in belgium i would still be a big 0) which is very irritating for a dj!! Cuz technique and song-choice is much less important then ur social skillz (which isn't the dj'sfault, but because of the promotors who only want to hire people they know).
I am trying to become a good producer myself, and i get in touch with lot's of producers like this, and i hear this kind of shit all the time, and i always have to defend myself, and why?! because of some irritating guy who doesn't deserve to be a dj... But why do promotors invite such dj's? can u guys answer that? |
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index
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
548
Posted : Apr 20, 2005 21:58
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Every new technology is used to b said that make things easier.In fact only the access to sources is easier.
The way it is used makes the difference.
Nowdays everyone can say that is a dj,because of cracked downloading.
Like the non comercial producers downloaded cracked softs.
Even they pay a lot of money for cds,it cant b compared to the money many producers spend to machines,money spent to promos and finally money for the release.
10000$ it could b just a good pair of monitors or an effect unit for using to only one cd.
I am sic of beeing told that "electronic music its too easy","anybody can compose music since he has a pc running 2-3 progz","i am a dj","i am a producer"...
There is no respect to knowledge,
no respect to the procedure,
no respect to artists,
no respect generally.
My doc told me to be carefull of my sickness,so
Respect ;-)
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Apr 20, 2005 23:47
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-19 07:44, br0d wrote:
IMO the title is meaningless unless some of the following conditions are true:
-The DJ is remixing, or producing.
-The DJ is either buying lots of music, or actively soliciting promos and white labels, and then PLAYING them.
-The DJ is aggressively researching new music.
-The DJ is also a promoter, and has given birth to a new night or event.
-The DJ seeks to actively educate the listener base in the new music he/she has found.
In other words, what value do they add, above and beyond their ability to pick from a pool of accepted songs (like some kid making a mixtape) and play politics?
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Actually I find the most important talent a DJ needs is the ability to take the crowd on a journey. The track selection is the most important part of a DJ's job.
After all, the DJ is doing a job for the crowd first and before anything else.
UnderTow |
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
355
Posted : Apr 22, 2005 10:05
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The ability to order songs is highly overrated. I mean truly, it is. I have DJ'd numerous times, and it is pretty simple. What do you have to do to "work a floor?" You have to have your ear to the ground and know what's popular, know what's potentially popular and understand the buzz factor, know a powerful new track with potential when you hear it, and know when classics are ripe for recall. No offense to anyone who believes in this vagueness about "feeling the floor" but the concept makes me laugh. This process is really not that hard, you could write a computer program which selects and sorts songs by key, BPM, and RMS values within a certain genre and which then builds a typically low to high or low to high to low paced song map which automatically avoids keyclashes, BPM clashes, and RMS/density clashes.
So I really still disagree. A DJ in a progressive genre ought to be first and foremost an ambassador, a promoter. I can understand keeping setlists and then giving them out by request, that's fine. But some DJs don't even record their setlists. How self involved. |
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jhanna
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
178
Posted : Apr 23, 2005 03:42
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yeah djs are highly overrated, specially i some genres of electronic dance music. i remember when i first came in contact with dance/trance/progressive/house music, getting confused by the idea of what a dj does, as many people nowadays. and it is a fact that they many times take credit of the music, most of the times in an illegal manner. they are supposed to promote the music , as said before , but instead of doing that, they take an ego trip (most of the times , i dont wanna generalize). what got me more into psy was the fact that most of the performers were the ones who created the music, thing that rarely happened in house/progressive. they made the dj an idol in a very commercial way. i do dj, but i mainly try to contribute in some way by giving, and that is to produce. |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Apr 23, 2005 13:29
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-22 10:05, br0d wrote:
The ability to order songs is highly overrated. I mean truly, it is. I have DJ'd numerous times, and it is pretty simple. What do you have to do to "work a floor?" You have to have your ear to the ground and know what's popular, know what's potentially popular and understand the buzz factor, know a powerful new track with potential when you hear it, and know when classics are ripe for recall.
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To me you are describing being a trendy DJ. That is EXACTLY what I don't want. Just looking at what is popular is commercialism and is the opposit of what a good DJ should be doing IMO.
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No offense to anyone who believes in this vagueness about "feeling the floor" but the concept makes me laugh. This process is really not that hard, you could write a computer program which selects and sorts songs by key, BPM, and RMS values within a certain genre and which then builds a typically low to high or low to high to low paced song map which automatically avoids keyclashes, BPM clashes, and RMS/density clashes.
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Again, this is exactly the opposit of what I think a good DJ should be doing. The abbove is a recipe for being generic and bland. I don't see how you can say this is the way to go in a "progressive scene". And if it is so easy, how come there are so many bad DJs that don't tell a story and don't inspire the crowd at all?
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So I really still disagree. A DJ in a progressive genre ought to be first and foremost an ambassador, a promoter. I can understand keeping setlists and then giving them out by request, that's fine. But some DJs don't even record their setlists. How self involved.
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Well I don't keep a setlist as I don't have one. I don't plan my sets. I don't see how that is self involved. But I usualy remember what I have played and will answer questions to anyone that asks.
Btw, I fulfil all your criterie to be a good DJ but to me they are all irrelevant. The DJ is not working for the producers but for the crowd IMO. Actually I would say it is the label's responsability to promote the artists. They should make sure they send out promos to the right DJs to get "air play" for their artists.
The way you describe the job of a DJ could just as well be applied to artists. They should just copy everything else that works on the dancefloor and apply simple rulez to construct their tracks. To me this doesn't sound right just as it doesn't sound right for DJs.
For me it is all about doing something different in a creative way. Both for producers as for DJs. Obviously the producer has the edge here and any DJ that doesn't realise this and tries to take all the credit is a fool. But there certainly is _some_ credit due towards a good DJ.
UnderTow |
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