Went through my folder of my own productions today and listened to everything I've done over the past few years.. and.. I'm not entirely happy with the direction I am going.. my newer stuff sounds too clean :/ - If that is even possible haha
Even though my newer stuff is snappy and very open, I find that the newer stuff I have done doesn't 'fill the space' like my old tracks did.. Going to load old projects and re-use some of the EQ and Comp-ing tricks I used.
My old sound :
My new sound :
Its probably a combination of things..
1 - the newer music I listen to, everyone has a different cleaner sound now compared to their older stuff, eg, E-Clip, Ace Ventura, Zyce, etc.. maybe I am just naturally trying to chase that
2 - My room is not the best, but I've learnt to listen past the room.. or so I thought. The issue I have (combination of room and monitors) is roughly around the 100hz to 400hz region.. so I seem to keep EQing that out to compensate for the room :/
Lately I seem to be more focused on every little detail rather than getting a track done.. I rate this adds to the problem too..
Some advice I received from Yonatan Marcow (BLiSS) : "Your music is more important than your production skills, your 'fat bass' will come in time, just make the music"
Rediscovered this track on my PC today.. IN LOVE with this sound! :
'Zyce - Illustration'
Food for thought
Ricciardo
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Posted : Apr 2, 2013 03:25
that might happen because your using too many digital sounding plugins in your mix
they are usualy low in character, they sound thin which makes it easir to mix, but then turn the track less interesting and lacking of dimention, even if you use many elements on the music
i think your mixes are well balenced and the structure nicely written and all, but you need to mix with more "weight", felling more the percussion sounds, the fact all its more or less balanced doesnt necessarly mean it delivers the needed impact to rule dancefloors, i think definitly you would increase your track in character if you tryed to "spice" a little more the elements using some warm tricks on each channel
try tape compressors, try to colour more the elements using automations, that gives character to stuff, not making it sound plain and boring, try to make transitions in sound more apealing... increasing contrast between speed/pace and breaks, more than Bpm thats a very important part of any track structure
but as your concern is mainly about mix, i think its a matter of you starting to care about not just making it sound balanced and clean, but turning the mix bigger! i wouldnt care much about your room accoustics, keep that way, your mix is fairly balanced, but you need to care more about the elements
i sugest you to try the following plugins:
- Novaltech Character
- PSP vintage Warmer
- Thrillseeker XTC (freeware)
- Roundtone by Sknote
- MFX - Magma by Nomad Factory
there are many stuff out there (even free) that can really add personality and turn your mix bigger , you are allready in a good solid level, now you can try to give a step ahead and turn your sound apealing to more demanding people like me , when you do that, then you shouldnt worrie about searching for labels, they will search you...
1 - the newer music I listen to, everyone has a different cleaner sound now compared to their older stuff, eg, E-Clip, Ace Ventura, Zyce, etc.. maybe I am just naturally trying to chase that
I know that phenomenon too well. And like Xsze I also think you have answered your question yourself already. Like you, I have 'chased' that "Serbian" sound for too long. And since guys like Zyce etc. have changed their style quite a bit over the past years, I have automatically changed 'my' style accordingly.
Only recently I have listened to some of my very first tracks. And beside the fact that I have actually made whole tracks, while in the past two years all I've done is building bassline with some aliby noises, I have noticed, that I like their older stuff a lot better than that super clean but rather boring music they make these days and which I tried to copy. My old stuff, which is actually MY stuff, is quite bad in terms of production but in terms of musical worth it's MUCH better than what I have done during the past years.
Ricardo gave you some good advice on what you could do. But I also think that the hint BLiSS gave to you is well worth considering: A fat clean bass is worth nothing when it causes you to bolt out your drive for actually making music. As I said before, I have done the same thing for too long. And I still struggle with my tendency to make the same mistake over and over again. But I have experienced the satisfaction of actually making my very own music instead of copying other peoples music. And it's a much better feeling
PoM
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Posted : Apr 2, 2013 13:41
the first problem that need to be fixed to me is your kick bass that is on the weak side, sound anemic.
thickness,warmth,fatness it s a lot if not all in the low/low mids
PoM
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Posted : Apr 2, 2013 14:36
i think what you mean with too clean is what i call plastic.. that carctere will always be there more or less if you use synth that are too clean/plastic imo,even with processing..
jekvan
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Posted : Apr 2, 2013 16:36
Usually the low freq make the sounds sound warm,maybe because it is what you used to hear in your mother belly. The low frequency mix is the one that is important to mix,because first of all,its the one that is most notable in frequency clash (higher frequencies can be more packed),second ,the more you feel it,the better,fuller,warmer it will sound to you.
You were probably at the beggining were less carefull about equing stuff from the low part,and thus it sounded fuller.So,don't be affraid of filling the lower spectrum (i don't mean the bass,but the frequencies somewhere above 300 hz or so) . If you hear the mud comming,well,thats the time to stop.
From all the things I lost,that sandwitch cost me most :)
Chemogen
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Posted : Apr 2, 2013 20:10
Personally I don't think you have anything to be concerned about, I find the production on the second track very pleasing and "bigger" than your older track.
@Ricciardo : Thats the thing, I tend not to use 'plastic' sounding plugins.. and although I think Sylenth1 can sound a bit plastic sometimes, I use it quite a lot (my go-to synth for bass) as I love love love the filter envelopes! It just sometimes lacks that 'gritty' sound when I need it.. maybe a bit too clean.
other than that I use:
Renegade - has some funky waveforms but also a very abrupt (?) and noticeable sound
Cronox 3 - this on the other hand has way too much 'grit' and the envelopes absolutely suck (opinion), but love it for distorted leads and plucks
Pure Pone - Dont use this much, keep forgetting about it, not so cool to program but I like the sound
FL Studio's 'Wasp' - Love this thing, so simple, and sounds good
Back to the topic, Im not really a fan of 'toys' like exciters and all that but I guess I should start looking at different sounding compressors and EQs..
I have PSP Vintage Warmer and its GREAT! - Just obviously cant go overboard and use it on everything now haha! I use the Waves C4 and the Renaissance Axx compressor too (like the attack and release)
I will give your other plugin suggestions a try!
@Xsze : Agreed hey
@Sgt-Kabukiman : Yeah I have never really tried to copy someone elses music, as I know this is just a recipe for failure, but rather the way they get their kick and bass to perfectly together among other things. But yes definitely, need to stop worrying about the small things and just get the music down!
@PoM : Indeed, plastic is the word
@jekvan : Yes definitely ! I think its because every time I made something and played it on a proper rig, there would always be an overkill of bass so I started taking it all out as apposed to listening to what the mix needs before I went overboard with the EQ..
@Chemogen : Yea it is definitely bigger ! (better reverb and delay tricks and more). Thanx boet!
Ok so I did a little something without getting too technical with EQ, left most of the bottom end alone and just made sure everything is balanced.. and I seem to be back on track ! haha
Thanx for the replies !
snowdogg
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Posted : Apr 3, 2013 01:09
Quote:
On 2013-04-02 23:49, Lucidity wrote:Cronox 3 - this on the other hand has way too much 'grit' and the envelopes absolutely suck (opinion), but love it for distorted leads and plucks
i found the same, it just lost its touch after 2, i tried crx4 aswell but it wasnt any better!
so the envelopes are good for plucks? isnt a psybass note really a bass pluck ?
knocz
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Posted : Apr 3, 2013 05:31
Have you tried doing things "wrong" on purpose? Like over compressing, saturation, distortion, and boosting some EQ frequencies?
I also agree there is more you can do in the mix to bring this to proper sense, and that the source is vital, but I imagine you have a higher quality setup now than when you made your old tunes (your studio has'nt decreased in quality).
Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz
if you are trying to make things clean, you will most likely make things too clean. in other words, you can make a superclean AND superphat bass only if you have very good ears, eq skills AND treated room and/or serveral reference possibilities. usually when you try to start cleaning things up for that sound you cut too much bass in kick and bassline.
have in mind, that serbian sound is, at least mixwise, top notch shizzle and took those dudes a long time to grow on. the newer zyce stuff is very very proper mixed. lacks music instead imho, but thats another story.
to get back on "warmth". you will find a track warm and phat when the frequency spectrum is well balanced. you newer track sounds thin cause it lacks deep bass. just for fun, put an eq on the master, best would be a warm coloured vintage style eq like a pultec emulation or similar. increase at 50 hz up to 3 db. listen, remove. increase at 100 hz, listen and remove. always see what it does to the tonal balance of the mix. best would be to try on headphones (removes room issues)
you should find that these are two very important areas for your mixes and from now on you have to integrate what you learn by this by implementing in the sounds from the beginning. thats the hard part as both, kick and bass, are bitches to get full AND clean.
nothing to worry about though, you do sound very good. its just to get even better
i think everybody comes to that point sometimes. i have been there often..
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/stereofeld-frequenzwechsel "I've always been a believer in musical repetition to draw in the listener and make the music hypnotic. Another thing I believe in is repetition." Alan Parsons
PoM
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Posted : Apr 3, 2013 14:10
use tracks to a/b find good produced stuff in techno/dnb not only psy, your track should still sound balanced and not thin next to some well produced dnb or techno.
if you a/b your track right now, you will find your bassline is almost closer to a lead than a real bass next to a tune that sound huge,but after it depend the sound you are after.
@snowdogg : Yes indeed it is, but when im doing bass I want a more clean and smooth sound (opinion), which Crx3 and 4 seems to be very far from :/ haha. I mean I like it for distorted and rough plucks for melodies and licks etc.
@knocz : Good idea, I have tried abit of 'wrongness' in the track I finished yesterday and I rate it kinda paid off.
Actually not, still have exactly the same gear hey
@klippel : You are spot on Yea i understand that, so me trying to achieve that sound in my room is kinda a far fetch :/ haha nevertheless I shall persevere!
I have actually done exactly what you suggested before I even read your reply.. haha! Yea everyone seems to point to that Pultec EQ, so I did some research, and then used it on my track and I really like the sound.. very subtle but makes a difference! Thanks!
@PoM : I have given this a try too.. I tend to forget to regularly A/B while I'm producing. I know this is very important
I will upload a track soon and then see what everyone thinks
metamorphosis music
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Posted : Apr 11, 2013 15:36
hey mate, 1st really great music this imo is most important. bout the sound yes is pretty clean n thin, but this can be fixed in a few ways. think it might be ur cutting too much or too much digital plugins. couple ideas u could warm this up, easiest would b with a good analog mastering job, or go back to the mix and add some lows like suggested, clippel is right on just less cut or boost some lows on kik/bass entire tone of track changes dramtically
https://soundcloud.com/alon-chen
