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Sound quality vs Creativity
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 17, 2007 19:57
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I think u mean well. But dude your live and let live attitude sucks. Do it next week... who cares...
Your approach is your own, and good luck with it. But Im gonna do my best to get any1 I can get thru to that modiocrity is not an option, and its their friggin responsibility to outdo every1 else.
P.S. thanks for the pop psyc. |
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dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
483
Posted : Mar 17, 2007 19:57
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Soulfood-
You make it out to be that we just don't like this KIND of music or something. Its not about not liking the kind of music. Its about development as an artist. I listen to all kinds of music and even if i don't like something I can respect it and acknowledge them as great musicians. What we are talking about here us complete crap. What is called dark psy comes to mind. This is complete garbage. Not to say that all dark is bad just the general image I get from listening to a variety of dark. Its not musical, not creative, and the only thing it has going for it is sound quality.
I'm all for making music for the fun of it even if you aren't good. Music can be a blast for everyone of all skill levels, I am just asking that we stop releasing this music.
There are quite a few great artists out there waiting for a deal and it is unfair to give it to some kid who couldn't write a melody for a million dollars. |
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slyman604
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
263
Posted : Mar 17, 2007 22:24
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Quote:
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On 2007-03-17 17:34, soulfood wrote:
What you have to understand is people make what sort of music they want to make.
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i actually think part of the problem is that is not actually true in a lot of the cases artist wise. When you realize that there are only so many psytrance customers to go around, i think the biggest reason we hear so much of the same stuff is because pro artists with real talent are writing more towards what they think will sell and make it worth the effort to put out an album rather than some great artistic expression of their creativity. The on the other end you have people doing their own thing, but they really dont have talent so we end up getting the worst of both worlds.
Another huge diservice thats been done is basically killing off the DJ with live acts as far as having any importance. I know pretty much every track i ever loved prior to 2000 was found from a dj that i liked and what was on his top 10. No one cares about djs now, dj is just someone who doesnt have a fake live act going.
The solution is very simple, be honest with yourself if you try to produce, and if you arent that good dont try to put out more crap. Who cares anymore if you can get released. I can remember in 1999 the coolest thing in the world would be to get a track released, but that was because it was quite hard. Now to get released you just have to figure out how to properly mix/eq and if it sounds professional, viola. All it does is spread the money thin to the real artists who should actually be making it here. |
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dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
483
Posted : Mar 17, 2007 23:41
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If what you say is true then psy trance is dead. If people really have their own vision but are manipulating it for release there is no such thing as psy trance anymore. |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Mar 18, 2007 00:51
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Real artists don't need the cash  So I keep telling myself...
I hope one day these money making artists realise that there's not really that much cash in trance compared to other genres, learn how to mic up live drums and guitars and write pop tracks to be sang by 3 spotty guys who somehow have a way with the ladies.
Dija - The bigger side of music is a business, therefore there is nothing you can do about people releasing the tried and tested records they know will sell. Thankfully at the other side of music is more than that. A deep power to control the emotions and a way of life to live by that does not require money.
You can either put your energy into talking down the music you don't like or spreading the word of the music that you do like as that is your only tool for educating the world of the music you love.
I'm saying these words as someone who in his teens wanted to play guitar in a big rock band and get loads of chicks . One day I was on a stage looking at a load of drunk people jumping up and down screaming so loud they could hardly hear the music, thinking whats really the point? They'd scream at anyone and that guys singing about a load of crap and it's all been done before.
On the other hand I could make music that would unite people all over the world in dance to express themselves to the music in their own space. This is the strongest statement I can make against the controversy we see in our world today as it exploits the truth that we can all get on with eachother.
Real artists don't need big record deals.
We do live in an age though where you can produce high quality at a very affordable price and I think as the years go by the standard is going to go right up so I'm not going to rush things as far as others are concerned but I am going to do the best that I can with my own music (2years down the line so far ). |
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dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
483
Posted : Mar 18, 2007 02:14
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Hmm, why make psy if you want money?
I think rather you want to view it this way or not what has been said in this thread IS an attempt to get people to seek out better music. We are pointing out the problems with modern music.
I think I'm done though this is quite the waste of time. Perhaps I'll start to release some garbage for money and then make the good stuff and keep it private. Dark psy here I come!!! BOOOM BASS BOOM BASS SQUELCHITY SQUELCHITY WEEEOOWWWWWWWWWW
=) 8) =^D |
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Saf
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
210
Posted : Mar 18, 2007 02:38
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I wish you guys would stop saying dark is crap. It's possible it just fills a different purpose than being musical. I like some darkpsy.
Kindzadza or Double REL isn't musical, it's half noise. But I like noise.
<sarcasm>
You know what while we're at it, digeridoo isn't musical either, it's crap.
</sarcasm>
What would be better is if we told each other about rad psy artists and what we like than complaining about what we don't like. Something productive.
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Seppa
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
485
Posted : Mar 18, 2007 07:14
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Quote:
| I wish you guys would stop saying dark is crap. |
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Dark is not crap , its just that to many arstist doing dark are crap. hehe ! I personally love dark soho. thats good stuff, I remember when the album combution came out .... and i loved it. saw them in live too, that was pretty amazing at that time.
there are occasionaly some good dark psy but i don't find the genre very attractive since not many people seems to produce it tastefully. I don't even understand why most people pretending to do dark label there music as dark. A bunch of weird noise doesn't make something dark in my opinion. dark melodies and harmony do.
thats said i found myself enjoying really twisted psy with a lot of weird noise, but it is difficult to achieve this type of psy while keeping it pleasant and interesting. I agree with dija about the creativity factor. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 18, 2007 08:45
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dark is also a greater production challenge because it uses dissonance , noise and enharmonic instruments. And well produced dark has to utilise these elements appropriately and correctly.
Its very easy to put a dissonant dark line in a fluffy happy mood mix and totally contradict both intentions and show painfully how bad a musician you are. if the intention is that u want a lightening emotion from a dark mood a good solution would be to use more stable tones, stable harmonies, with more harmonic tambres, gentler rhythms. If you want a darkening mood u would go vice versa, having to ensure flow and continuity, by not going overboard and not using all the elements at once, or by intending a large contrast and jumping from one extreme to another.(like nin - mister self destruct, in which case the contrasts almost simulate bipolarity or mania I think very effectively)
This is not an easy thing to do(to add in dissonance appropriately etc), but with knowledge its just a trick.
Also because of the more chaotic enharmonic nature of dark, its more difficult to get a clear mix.
I firmly believe that only advanced musicians can make decent dark music as it takes more skill, so its a genre which is on a higher level from a technical point of view.
Of course I have heard great morning stuff as well so...
Soulfood - while ur doing nothing to help the situation please stop being an obstruction. |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Mar 18, 2007 16:48
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I think I'm being cyber bullied now
I think my opinions are just as valid as the next guys.
I guess in future I'll run all my posts by bukboy so he get get them approved by the gestapo before I post my anti-progress propaganda into the hands of the public. And this isn't the critisize soulfood's logic thread... if you really need to do that you have my msn so stop wasting peoples time, k?
And I don't remember this being a topic about dark trance either. There's like another 50 of these else where on the board.
I think Tron is a great example of an artist with a modern psychedelic sound with great production. He has a composition style very similar to that of underground artists who are mostly sound based with little melody, but still manages to maintain a very tuneful sound world which is quite pleasant on the ear. Very nice at night or in the morning.
Back on topic now |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 19, 2007 20:39
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soulfood - All Im doing is trying to make people aware that there are greater values in music.
I know that the niche musicians dont lack creativity. Its the mainstream ones who need to know that theres more to music.
Anyway... |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Mar 20, 2007 02:54
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Quote:
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On 2007-03-19 20:39, bukboy wrote:
I know that the niche musicians dont lack creativity. Its the mainstream ones who need to know that theres more to music.
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no no no
this artists just do their thing mate..
its the peaple that need to make the diffrence , and not buying crap.
you know there is good music ? go listen to it instead telling skazi/infected/astrix/milion others that they lack something.
and simply , support good music by buying it and not buying crap thats it.
1 thing also
if you take "psytrance" out of this discussion , is it still the same ?
YES it is. today best seller are girls that can only look good. the music they buy from producers who "know" the formula of "hit" and have good quality , but this is for 12 years old who watch mtv , i dont have to listen to this right ? no i dont. and also didnt listened to one of the artists i mentioned before over a year.. why? cause its not my thing.
good way to solve your problem
find the record labels you like , they will make the elimination of crap for you.
i know labels like : giiwa , parvati , zaikadelic , exogenic , antiscarp (and more) are the one's i like , so im updating just with their stuff , and not forgeting listen to 2-3 new albums from various labels that i never heard before. obviously if i dont like astrix , i wont listen to hommega new realeses , as it would be the same crap imo.
remember usualy record label is the taste of 1 person or 2 , so if this guy likes generic fullon and im not , why should i care how creative is their music....
one last thing , a list of music i think make exelent creative and quality work , and lack nothing. its not VS at all as you can see . i apply many genres to make my point clearer.
neuron compost
haltya
shponge/simon p.
ott
tamlin
the vicious spiral
ten-g
jahbo
g.o.w
air
pink floyd
ozric tentacles
eat static
atriohm
peter gun
perfect stranger
sepultura
pantera
flanger
tiper
telephone telaviv
more and more and more...
can u say now its realy VS thing ?  www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Mar 20, 2007 03:25
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Cheers for that tsabeat. I thought I was fighting a losing war for a moment there. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Mar 20, 2007 03:28
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tsabeat - spot on!
anyway for some magic reason i dont spend alot of time looking for music, it just falls down on me!! 
I dont listen to much psytrance these days, though of course i get the urge sometimes, like with all music i like...
i think if you concentrate on the crap it will be what you hear...
" When I find myself in times of trouble
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be, let it be"
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 20, 2007 07:04
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So do u guys reckon theres no value in teaching the noobs in here good musical values?
You guys do realise that a large part of the fault for the simplicity of mainstream psy is the is the predominant attitude that simplicity is good enough. Every1 does it. you dont need music knowledge... you dont need music knowledge. All that accomplishes is that people dont even bother trying.
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