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Sound quality vs Creativity
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 13, 2007 13:43
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saf - I also thought trance was crap. It did all sound like the same kick + bass with squiglies. Until I heard some decent bands who manage to do something interesting, at which point I fell in love with the possibilities of trance.
BUT I dislike the same repetitive amateur crap that every non trancer dislikes. Because it is repetitive, inappropriately dissonant, amatuer random keys crap.yet Im on this forum.
Crap trance is a pain in every1's arse, dont say that is psy's nature. Say that is the substandard kak's nature, that passes for trance because it rips off the good stuff.
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slyman604
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
263
Posted : Mar 13, 2007 20:51
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On 2007-03-13 11:04, bukboy wrote:
The software DAW and vsts have put quasi best professional quality tools at the fingertips of every1. Only prob is back in the days, u had to be talented to fight your way to use those tools that were rare. Now that every1 has the tools, traditional rarity of tools is not a factor in the selection of those who actually have the drive and knowledge going on, from those that dont deserve to.
Not that ubiquitous pro software is a bad thing. But I think that education is definitely a weakness in the market. Also these days, instead of making a sound u can just flip through a samples folder to add spice. Which is a great timesaving tool, but when every1 does it, then everything sounds the same.
So to remedy the problem every1 must learn music theory, and every1 must learn synth theory, and every1 must give up their dayjob to become pro. 
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i would actually love it if DAW and VSTs were never invented. Back in the day even more so than having to fight to use the gear you basically only had pro musicians making music. Most hobbiest were not going to spend $5-10k on gear to make a track. Now anyone can make a track for free on their home comp with warez software. I actually hate VST, i think its ruined electronic music entirely. I remember when VST came about i thought it would be the greatest thing ever because all these talented people could now make music that couldnt before. Instead though its made the music so "cheap" that the guys with talent can probly make more money working at mcdonalds than being a pro electronic musician.
I think more psy "artists" need to just give up and admit they dont have musical talent. I completely include myself in this. I first started trying to produce in 1999 but i admit i suck and just like to mess with synths now. Stop flooding the market with utter shit making the talented guys move to other genres they can actually make a living in. |
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dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
483
Posted : Mar 13, 2007 23:01
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Well said slyman:
I do think that VST is important I think it is more about people just being more choosey about who they pay to hear and who labels release. I'm not trying to keep bad musicians from writing music if its fun for you then by all means indulge yourself. I just want to improve the quality of released material. Perhaps this is impossible because only so many people can produce great music. Maybe if labels followed my advice there would basically be no releases. |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Mar 14, 2007 04:22
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Quote:
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On 2007-03-13 13:43, bukboy wrote:
saf - I also thought trance was crap. It did all sound like the same kick + bass with squiglies. Until I heard some decent bands who manage to do something interesting, at which point I fell in love with the possibilities of trance.
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like who please ?
 www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Saf
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
210
Posted : Mar 14, 2007 06:47
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Quote:
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On 2007-03-14 04:22, tsabeat wrote:
like who please ?
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I kinda think there's a tradeoff between danceable and interesting. The more interesting/creative/weird a psy track is often the less easy it is to dance to. I don't think this has to be this way tho, but the more predictable something is the easier it is to dance to, maybe.
We can turn this into a thread about which artists we think are cool though, cause that'd be way more productive and fun 
I'm into lots of noisy psy lately, Psykovsky is pretty neat, and Ghreg on Earth. Phyx's Kiss the Blade Album is really pretty trippy, and Artifakt does a lot of creative trance tracks, imo. I'm pretty into Russian and South African stuff. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 14, 2007 09:02
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The thing is even good artists make crap tracks. Few artists make decent albums.
I came over to psy after hearing gms juice. It shocked me that trance could actually have varied forms and even ... creativity and surprise. But that said most of their other tracks arent anywhere near as inventive. But I got into it. really liked infected, astral, a track from deedrah, a track from telemasca, most of dark soho, ALL of xenomorph, track from cpu, track from gattaca. Most recently I really dig phatmatix and a bit of commercial hippies.
Other genres of music I like are ebm, experimental alternative, new age, classical, hard rock, as long as anything is a bit electronic il like it. In short Il like anything provided it sounds interesting/surprising.
I wish there was a rating/ranking system for tracks (and artists), like a top 40, with reviewers. perhaps even in different genres (of psy). But thats just dreaming. I dont think that is possible tho without easy access(possibly cheaply subsribeable) so that any1 can listen without having to go on a mission to find stuff. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Mar 14, 2007 10:01
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I been overly sensitive to my own quality, but i have learned what makes decent quality and i focus manly on expressing my self instead of fooling around with Eq´s and compressors. In my opinion you have to divide the musical work with the tehcnical work.
at least for me, if i start to mix the two i will break my musical flow.. of course if i hear that something lacks or is needed i will most probably add it straight away, but from a artistic point of view not a as a perfectionist..
the best is if a artist and a technician work together.
why do we have to force change and innovation, i think it comes by it self, when time is right. To experiment is always good, but one have to evaluate the fruits of the experiment!
creativity and expression comes first!
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Saf
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
210
Posted : Mar 14, 2007 10:38
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Do you guys think that perhaps an explanation behind the common basslines and common trance form is that it forms a backbone for the genre, then, the backbone is almost like a medium such as canvas, or carving in stone, or pencil on paper. The common aspects of psytrance would then be seen as a medium on which the art is created on.
The medium provides the basis for the track to trance you out, and be danceable, yet then everything else is left towards being as weird, original, experimental, and awesomelysyncopatedwikked as we can?
I mean, does that make sense, cause that's kinda how I always thought about it. Sure it seems to make every psy track sound *the same* because it has the common backbone, but then isn't every scupture the same cause it's carved, and every painting the same cause it's on canvas?
I kind of find it hard to express these things in writing, so sorry in advance. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Mar 14, 2007 11:15
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Saf - yeah you could see it that way!
what one can do is to take a rock kick instead of a typical trance kick to make a little innovation.. mix acoustic drums with electronic...
when you get tired of using the same old things you just have to try new things! maybe in the end you understand that the old is what works best but you wouldnt if you hadnt tried something new....
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 14, 2007 11:31
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In any genre, the listners know exactly what mixing, mastering and instrumentation is accepteable. Removing the rigid kick + bass tranciness of trance would be like changing the genre.
The real source of accepteable innovation in the genre is from aspects other than the backbone. i.e. on a concrete level - melody, harmony, rhythm and tambre. On a more abstract level, tension, release, contrast, flow, continuity all supported by the more concrete aspects, and on an even more abstract level, mood, emotion and storyline, supported by ALL the concrete elements below.
Changing tambre alone is a very cheap cheap method of claiming "innovation".
I think that more artists should be aware of the abstract implications of their concrete "in the moment" decisions.
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psiwyber
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
105
Posted : Mar 14, 2007 15:24
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bringing out the cleanest possible sound is important..not every1 gets high enough to hear crystal clear sound.. ;P
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http://www.myspace.com/psiwyber |
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dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
483
Posted : Mar 14, 2007 16:15
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Good sound quality is important I can't argue that. Perfect sound quality??? in my opinion striving for perfect sound quality comes at the cost of creativity. Obviously your arrangement should be mixable but if you want it to be perfect it reduces what you can do by incredible amounts.
Too much perfection takes away the humanity of it. The only way to get these perfect mixes is to be very minimal about what is playing at any given time. I love good production but it personally doesn't bother me when theres a couple frequency clashes when I can see the reasoning behind them. Frequency clashes that can be fixed bother me but frequency clashes that are sacrificed in the pursuit of creativity are wonderful. |
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RenderingRebel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
293
Posted : Mar 14, 2007 18:40
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Quote:
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On 2007-03-14 10:38, Saf wrote:
Do you guys think that perhaps an explanation behind the common basslines and common trance form is that it forms a backbone for the genre, then, the backbone is almost like a medium such as canvas, or carving in stone, or pencil on paper. The common aspects of psytrance would then be seen as a medium on which the art is created on.
The medium provides the basis for the track to trance you out, and be danceable, yet then everything else is left towards being as weird, original, experimental, and awesomelysyncopatedwikked as we can?
I mean, does that make sense, cause that's kinda how I always thought about it. Sure it seems to make every psy track sound *the same* because it has the common backbone, but then isn't every scupture the same cause it's carved, and every painting the same cause it's on canvas?
I kind of find it hard to express these things in writing, so sorry in advance.
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I totally disagree on that
You dont have to use all the time exactly the same bass sound and bass lines.
There are so much way to vary from the boring 16th notes basslines and still stay true to the style of psytrance.
Listnen to andromeda for instance, really differnt style of basslines but really psychedelic
Or vibrasphere with really energetic teebee basses that are not 4 to the floor.
ace ventura is also really inventive with some tracks on the basslines.
There's countless of more examples of music that fits to the psytrance genre without the sameold boring kick and bass.
i've hear so much innovative rhythms, basses and grooves within this style.
There's just a trend with the fullon kick and bass and a lot of people follow that trend just becouse they dont dare to innovate themselves.
I think the real psychedelic thing about the style should be the diversity of music within the genre.
But im cleary in the minority with the people sharing that same opinion.
This goes for the sounds aswell, how many times do i hear a fullon track that is exactly build in the same way as 100's of other producers.
Anyway, thats how i think about it.
But in the end its just a matter of opinion
Same goes for the subject of what is psychedelic and what not.
Thats all really personal, for one person progressive sounds too commercial and for the other dark is not psychedelic atall and so on.
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Mar 14, 2007 23:47
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bukboy - i dont agree!
you are just being anti cause you can 
I think most people are tired of the classic timbre of the backbone!
you can make trance with a Djembe as kick and a very lose Baya(for example) as a bass.
A tambourine a shaker and all kinds of percussion and then add some leads ontop of that, some pads and sound FX and what not.
and im sure people would love it and dance to it!
So dont judge without even having a experiment!
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 14, 2007 23:57
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