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Sound quality vs Creativity
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panoz
Started Topics :
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11
Posted : Mar 4, 2007 12:28
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Trip- it's not past tense but rather future tense.and UnderTow i thought this music was a way to escape from all of these problems and not a part of the problem...anyway i just wanted to see if other people think the same as me.maybe the record labels play some role too.maybe they are pushing artists for sound quality in order to get released and sell cd's by making fancy covers and nothing more.and someone has to tell some artists to stop making psychedelic remixes of britney spears songs or ricky martin or i dont know what.how low can we get? |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
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1560
Posted : Mar 4, 2007 15:04
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I think undertow is right in that the apparent lack of creativity in a lot of music more have to do with the times we live in than for example new technology.
Not sure if it's so much the fact that we live in a fucked up world right now...that could just as well act as a source of inspiration.
But creativity seems to go in waves, and trance fans is not the only ones nagging about the good old days.
There is no really new genres appearing in the last decade, and all the genres that was born in the 80's-90's seem to have somewhat lost their original sparkle.
As to the original topic of production vs. creativity, of course it's easy to say that both is best.
For me it's not that easy though, and there is several reasons why it is a conflict between them.
If you try to make your sound perfect to fit in with other tracks on a compilation your less likely to experiment. You are more likely to stick with your killar bass and kick, because you know it will work and make your track appear well produced.
I can admit that I experiment quite little myself with fundamentals like kick and bass...it's a whole lot easier to stick with a winning combo.
But I respect producers like Ka-Sol who do experiment even with that. Sure many of his tracks end up not sounding so good production-wise cause the kick and bass doesn't have the regular punch, but other tracks really sound awesome IMO and reeks of creativity.
I'm not to sure that that creativity would not be hindered by trying to make tracks that fit a certain level of production to fit on a compilation.
Also by working hard to polish a track, at least for me it's easy to loose some of the original sparkle.
Not only does some levels that is off and phasing in the lower frequencies many times add to the liveliness of a track, but you also end up getting bored with parts that was perfectly fine and making changes that actually is not an improvement, only one think they are because you haven't heard them 100 times before.
I'm personally quite fuzzy what equipment i use and want really good sounding devices and mixers.
But when it comes to mixing I avoid fine tuning levels and doing a lot of EQ'ing because that way I feel I can keep the liveliness of the track, but still have decent sound without being sterile.
 (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
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http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 4, 2007 16:04
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Sound quality vs Creativity is the problem of isra full on producers ,there is so many copycats,thats why there is no creativity imo |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
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803
Posted : Mar 4, 2007 22:19
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undertow - The original artists who made psy trance didnt make psy trance to begin with. They came from other genres, and had loads of experience in them.
Dark soho for example had a alternative/metal band i think.(something darker and guitary in any case)
The problem is that this kind of other genre experience is not easy to communicate whereas production is relatively non abstract and easy to do if u have the one two three steps prescribed.I think the blame here is to lay somewhat on the shoulders of the artists who cannot communicate how to make composing choices but can communicate production tips.
I think the problem is that people are trying to make psytrance exclusively with no "music" experience not realising that the real inspiration comes from other sources. But they can easily get recipes for good production.
So in short the reason that few people know how to make decent tracks is coz no-one bothers teaching them, and the "teachers" that do exist pretend that u dont "REALLY" "REALLY" need any music knowledge to make psy. Which is bull. I cant explain this tho, but its true. They think that if u teach someone to sidechain a kick and bass then theyve helped someone on a path to an illustrious career.
I would bet money that if someone famous (who can teach, because people who can communicate well are far and few between) started explaining composition decisions with examples then immediately there would be a lot more pressure on all the more prosaic artists here to start making compositionally complex stuff.
I doubt that capitalism or commercialism is to blame. Blame the lack of decent artists in psy on the poor returns on investment that they get by making psy. Sadly hippies dont really have money. |
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Saf
Started Topics :
5
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210
Posted : Mar 5, 2007 02:09
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Most full on I hear has nothing psychedelic about it, at all.
So why is it called Psy Trance? |
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High Pulse
Darkpsy
Started Topics :
57
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1187
Posted : Mar 5, 2007 05:44
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well its a complicated history i think!!
a music must be inteligent and clean , clean means that i can hear everything without mess in the midle .
and this is something that each of us artist that make music we want or not follow , maybe this or that one want to follow this way by this method's and does outher artist prefer in outher ways , this is a mather of tast .
and personaly i try to get best mix possible each new music i make , but of course ill try always to make a nice history on the midle and keeping a nice rithm on it .
but thats just me , each one have is own reasons or no possibilities of going further.
cheers
"HIGH PULSE" AKA FUSION OF DARKPSY PROJECTS
http://www.myspace.com/highpulsemusic
http://www.beatbiz.net/artists/High-Pulse <- musiC FOR SELL. |
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.Telektonon.
Started Topics :
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17
Posted : Mar 5, 2007 13:44
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Quote:
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On 2007-03-05 02:09, Saf wrote:
Most full on I hear has nothing psychedelic about it, at all.
So why is it called Psy Trance?
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That’s open to interpretation.
The psychedelic experience will differ from one to the next.
A track may not be psychedelic to you, however to your mate dancing like a Bastard next to you , it could be the’ Journey of his Life’.
On saying that… yes I think also that Creativity is in a Lull at the moment, we can only pray to the Lord for a ingenious machine to descend and walk among us.
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Saf
Started Topics :
5
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210
Posted : Mar 5, 2007 15:25
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I agree it's all in the interpretation.
But I personally don't find music trippy just cause it has some drug related movie sample in it and the track name is a reference to Albert Hoffman's dog, if you get what I mean 
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
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1142
Posted : Mar 5, 2007 18:28
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if found that when im trying to stick to rules, i cant be very produtive and i end up half way throught the project/Track
in other way, when i dont try to follow those unwritten rules, creativity helps me to improve my work, sound much better and learn much more
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
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483
Posted : Mar 5, 2007 18:40
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Quite the delicate issue here.
I don't think that music experience is needed to write psy trance, or any music for that matter. Some people can play by ear and some can't.
I believe the extreme amount of music coming out with no melodies or even chord progressions or any kind of instrumentation is a result of some social issues. First, these people just like to fool with sound but they are in no way musicians. Thats all fine but why should this stuff be getting released? Well, it gets released because people listen to it. People will listen to anything, just turn on the radio and listen to a bunch of teenage kids play the same power chords over n over again. People create music with no instrumentation because they are not able to create it with instrumentation. That is the only logic that I can follow. There is room for instrumentation in all types of music be it dark psy (the worst culprit here imo), full on, whatever. It's easy to pump up the tempo beyond a reasonable amount throw some sound fx and call it dark. The higher the tempo, the less work there is for you to do.
This is a real crisis in my opinion. Not just in psy but in all types of music. People simply have no taste...I know that you are thinking that taste is a matter of opinion, but what I am saying is most people have no way to distinguish between bad and good. I can listen to something and say hey, thats a really well written piece of music regardless of rather I like it or not. So its not a matter of like and dislike its a matter of intelligent informed people being able to listen with their mind, emotions and intellectually come to a conclusion about rather this artist is doing something unique. In order for music to be grand there has to be 2 things in my opinion 1. melody 2. creativity Most of the music I hear in psy and in other genres lacks both of these.
Sorry if you guys think I'm full of it. :) |
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Dharma Lab
Started Topics :
8
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342
Posted : Mar 5, 2007 20:28
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Dija, I think you've touched on a few important points. Ultimately, the more trained your ear, the more informed your decision. However, there is the diminishing marginal return, which is that the more times you experience something you like, the more the height of your pleasure dimishes. I think it has to do with our expectations a bit.
I guess the point I'm making is that for people who produce music, & certainly listen to it alot, it's a simple fact that you are going to hear a lot of concepts & applied theory that you are familiar with. The parts & pieces are not new, only how they are being combined & put together.
It beings to mind a quote from Marcel Proust: "The real voyage of discovery lies not in seeking new lands but in seeing with new eyes."
Keep The Faith,
Christian K. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
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803
Posted : Mar 5, 2007 21:06
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Dharma Lab - saying that the more u experience it, the more boring it gets is like assuming that there is nothing more to discover coz it all exists already. That statement was old even in the most pathetic dying throes of the roman empire. And with that attitude no-one would make anything but recombinations.
Dija - no experience needed? I suppose musicians with no integrity also make music with no soul or purpose. ART mimics reality, it exposes and directs our attention to things that are amazing but we take for granted, or never even noticed. That is what makes an artist. deliberation in construction. expertise and artifice in his craft such that he can depict reality, i.e. sadness, jealousy, passion, joy, intensity all by design.
Astral projection oooze elation and complexity. theres nothing to get bored about in there. dark soho ooze grittiness & claustrophobia. xenomorph oozes spiraling insanity and general deviance. These are real artists. Their music is so self consistent, it doesnt make the wrong move which breaks the mood. Everything perfectly supports everything else in a spiralling dance to culmination or paroxysm. Theres method in the madness. Theres years and years of experience in knowing what to do and what not to do and most importantly with this knowledge these artists go further breaking these barriers of personal attainment as if it were a personal passion not just for financial gain.
All the guys who dont bother achieving this are at best one hit wonders. That said it is possible to achieve these results. Music is a profession with deterministic paths to mastery. Its very straightforward steps that you have to make at ever increasingly demanding levels, but it is just like programming or building. Just a set of rules to learn and follow.
The other route is laziness and mediocrity.
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
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1142
Posted : Mar 5, 2007 23:17
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Quote:
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On 2007-03-05 21:06, bukboy wrote:
Theres years and years of experience in knowing what to do and what not to do and most importantly with this knowledge these artists go further breaking these barriers of personal attainment as if it were a personal passion not just for financial gain.
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how do you fit skazi in this theory? 
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
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483
Posted : Mar 6, 2007 00:43
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Experience perhaps wasn't the proper term. How about formal training. Which was what sparked the discussion. Someone said people need to be taught music composition. Someone with the vision and ideas all they need is the knowledge and tools to put their ideas into physical form.
By knowledge, I mean knowledge of the tools. Someone with a good ear can make good music right off the bat with minimal knowledge. Most of it is technical especially in electronic music. Unfortunately most people don't have any good ideas and they rely upon their technical ability. |
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Dharma Lab
Started Topics :
8
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342
Posted : Mar 6, 2007 21:17
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Quote:
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On 2007-03-05 21:06, bukboy wrote:
Dharma Lab - saying that the more u experience it, the more boring it gets is like assuming that there is nothing more to discover coz it all exists already. That statement was old even in the most pathetic dying throes of the roman empire. And with that attitude no-one would make anything but recombinations.
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It's only a theory in economics, and it appears perhaps I truncated it too much to make my point effectively. Have you ever experienced a song, or sound getting 'old' to your ears? After the initial experience, it requires more effort to maintain or increase the output (i.e. enjoyment in this case). The amount of effort continues to increase exponentially, until it actually starts to hinder the output. Hope I don't sound too pompus... not trying to be.
I'll put it in a different light from my own experiences: the more you experience something, the larger your internal process plays a role in your 'enjoyment' or 'adversion'. To over simplify it, you are the one who changes, not the moment.
Keep The Faith,
Christian K. |
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