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Soset's manifesto
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DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 23:23
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Quote:
| On 2004-12-10 23:12, ocelot wrote:
No shit. I judge you to be a pain in the ass and pretty preachy too. |
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though to be honest, I've heard almost exact sentiments before from a girl who grew up going to the bridge parties in New York.. She always says our parties here are not pure enough. every time she swears she's never coming ever again, but every time she is back, and always helps us put them together, decorate, etc. and you know what? it really helps to have her energy with us. and not against us.
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Dec 11, 2004 02:38
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ok. so i probably was harsher than the spirit of this thread- which seems to be rather tame at heart.
Soset- we've been arguing in the forum for a little bit here... as I see it - it all started when you expressed your dislike for a certain NYC crew. You seemed really convinced they were downright BAD for the scene- you didn't get them the benefit of the doubt and you didn't acknowledge their unneccessary but WELCOMED efforts to bring some Trance Parties to NYC.
They didn't need to do these parties- but they chose to- and the community is richer for it. Instead- you chose an attack tone of voice and really shot to kill.
Then you post this big missive wherein you discuss your disapproval of 'the energy' at trance parties, leading us to believe you perhaps know THE PROPER energy a party should have. You, naturally, take some shit from people for your preachy self-righteous arrogant attitude. Some people support your cause as inside they root for the underdog and right now you are IT- you ARE the underdog.
This achievement you have merited is tempered, however, by the basic fact that despite your rhetoric, all you are DOING is judgemental and low-vibration.
Your efforts are not raising the community vibration. You are doing NOTHING to help this community through these words. WORK- good old fashioned WORK is what helps the community-
hosting get togethers and potluck dinners, organizing trance parties, making visual artwork, making music to dance to, dj'ing music for people to dance to, doing a door shift for your friends, the organizers, taking care of that person who you always see at parties and who suddenly got deathly ill...
your hypocrisy personally upsets me-
you have no idea how much of my life i have given to the trance community. You have no concept of the connections I have shared via this community with people who are both alive and dead. I'm sure that everyone has a story and you just have no concept of where people are in their own spiritual journey.
just because you suddenly started coming to trance parties after you came down from your mountain doesn't mean we all are going to listen to your naive thoughts...
this is why you are getting so many responses-
what you are saying is SO fucked up that almost everyone has something to say to it.
BOM
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BrettFromTibet
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
749
Posted : Dec 11, 2004 05:10
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soset... i'm glad you have an opinion, and the courage to share it. I think your intentions are good. A lot of people in the psychedelic counter-culture of this country, like the thousands of trippers on the Playa, would probably agree with you...
..just not the vocal minority of hardcore "dark/Evil" trance fans and producers that hang out on this board, and bully you relentlesly for speaking up.. what some people would call the unflattering truth.
I have seen pics of the parties that got you so stirred up. (yikes!)
Your opinions DO come off very strong, but I can understand. You're probably truly shocked and outraged at what is passed off as a 'psychedelic party' in NYC... having experienced the genuine thing elsewhere.
hang in there, Sister!
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BrettFromTibet
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
749
Posted : Dec 11, 2004 05:13
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DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : Dec 11, 2004 08:33
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brett, dude, how do you manage to turn every discussion into dark vs. full on argument? 
This one has nothing to do with it at all. it's about community vibes, not style of music. Besides, Boxer plays more banging full-on, not "dark/evil" trance, from what i understand.. you'd probably really like it. 
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 12, 2004 02:37
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ocelot -
"...Then you post this big missive wherein you discuss your disapproval of 'the energy' at trance parties, leading us to believe you perhaps know THE PROPER energy a party should have. You, naturally, take some shit from people for your preachy self-righteous arrogant attitude. Some people support your cause as inside they root for the underdog and right now you are IT- you ARE the underdog."
Have you considered that some people are supporting me because they know that what I am saying is true? I am going to say this for the first and last time in this thread. I never said that TDC are "bad", and I never said that I "hate" them. I DID say that they were ignorant, simply because they didn't pay attention to what was being said.
"This achievement you have merited is tempered, however, by the basic fact that despite your rhetoric, all you are DOING is judgemental and low-vibration."
Please, I am really not being judgemental. Read flavorself's post about judgement and see if you can see why I believe I am not being judgemental. I am simply being honest about what I see.
"Your efforts are not raising the community vibration. You are doing NOTHING to help this community through these words. WORK- good old fashioned WORK is what helps the community-"
It is just as important to point out when members of the community are not acting in an honest fashion, since it affects us all. You should think about a few things. For example, why, for an underground party, do we have to pay $5 for a bottle of water, why do we have to pay $50-70 for the NYE party? This involves no judgements, they are simply questions. I am not really concerned about the prices but I want to know if we can really call this an "underground" party. In an honest community these questions would be answered in public, not in private mail, since this concerns the whole community.
"your hypocrisy personally upsets me- "
Hypocrisy - The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
This does not apply to me. I am always true to what I believe and to myself.
"you have no idea how much of my life i have given to the trance community. You have no concept of the connections I have shared via this community with people who are both alive and dead. I'm sure that everyone has a story and you just have no concept of where people are in their own spiritual journey. "
I am sure that you approach this with good intent, but perhaps you should also learn to listen to others. Especially those for whom you are doing this. Why take comments as judgement?
"this is why you are getting so many responses-
what you are saying is SO fucked up that almost everyone has something to say to it."
Are you absolutely sure about this? I am talking about very fundamental issues here, and maybe that is why people have something to say. I am sorry that you don't seem to understand what I am saying. But please, try not to react so defensively to what I say, instead simply read it with an open mind and an open heart.
Ocelot - As far as I am concerned this thread is not about party organisers any more. Of course, you are free to post anywhere you like but I would prefer that we switch that conversation to another thread, if you really want to continue with that.
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mono mono
Onnomon
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
314
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 08:22
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Quote:
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For example, why, for an underground party, do we have to pay $5 for a bottle of water, why do we have to pay $50-70 for the NYE party?
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Those are the easy questions. In NYC space is a premium, especially a space that let's a party go into the next day. The underground promoters really have to work hard to find and rent a space; it's hard by virtue that they are underground (unproven customers to the space owners). I would say that Tsunami is an example of a not-so-underground promotional, they get the premium spaces like Spirit, Vinyl, and stuff on Times Square. Mostly because they have the money and they have working relationships with those clubs. Believe it or not i've been to some killer Tsunami parties.
$5/bottle water is par for NYC clubs, especially the shiester chinatown ones. I will say that I was impressed by Exit (brooklyn) because they let you leave and return to the premises.
Now, NYC clubs are a premium, but NYE NYC club space is super-frickin-premium. Paying $50-$70 is kinda of cheap for partying out on the town. Just check out any little bar or club, they'll have reservations for NYE and they don't run cheap. Of course for that price I would hope to get some champagne.
Soset, I think you need to recalibrate your attitude towards the NYC scene. It's marred by high real-estate. We get an occasional real underground like a bridge party or, rarely, a warehouse party (a fine group of russians doing it in jersey city), one offs such as the rooftop party with Dimitry-TIP a couple of years ago, coney island outdoors, that fun-house gig with son kite, and so on...
You get the picture, they just don't come along every week or even month. Now that winter is upon us the choices are limited. When the weather gets warmer we have the pine barrens plus a host of outdoor festivals on the east coast. I might add that these parties are lovingly organized by dedicated dancers and fans of the music.
I believe I have a good sense of a party vibe and history has demonstrated that good vibes are always around the corner.
-dz
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dopey576
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
234
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 17:58
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i have been following this thread for a WHILE. But decided that i did not want to contribute to the -ve views posted by some people here.
BUT I CANNOT RESIST ANYMORE!
Soset you have a right to post your opinions but you need to learn CHILD that you are speaking to community that loves the trance and loves partying. I have not been to the parties you speak of in NY but i do realise the difficulties organisers face in the US especially in cities.
How can you be so naive and bitch about things that you have no concept of being able to do? You dont produce music, you dont throw parties, you obviously dont contribute to the vibe and energy of parties. GROW UP! if you dont like the scene in NY fine, you can make your point on this forum, but dont bitch at artists like ocelot, dark soho and organisers as these are the few people who support our beloved parties. They should be inspiriation to you not targets to vent your anger.
You need to get rid of your cognitive misconceptions of trance music and parties. Support artists you like, dont support ones you dont like. Its simple. Just dont PREACH your -VE unhelpful comments to a forum that loves the music. It is obvious to me that you dont appreciate the music for what it is worth.
 ToO mUcH pReSsUrE oN tHe BrAiN |
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flavorself
Started Topics :
0
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12
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 19:28
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dopey576 ....
If you had read the whole of this thread then you would realize that it is not really about individual parties. When someone misunderstands what has been written and then proceeds to make childish or ignorant comments based on that misunderstanding, then it should be pointed out to them. It is completely irrelevant whether they are artists, organizers, or normal punters. We are all equally valid.
Perhaps you should read again what has been written, but this time with a clear mind. It seems as if you have approached it with a particular attitude and this seems to have clouded your understanding. Did you understand any of the posts about community? Have you ever been involved in a true community? Can you not understand that we all need to comment on what we see and on what we experience, in order to improve things? In a community this is not just a right, it is a duty.
Incidentally, why are you being so patronizing and judgmental? What is the meaning of the “CHILD” reference? Soset’s comments are more grown-up than most of the other comments I read in this forum, including yours. Anyone who uses a term like “cognitive misconception” would seem to me to be someone who understands very little about the whole concept of knowing, so perhaps you should work on your own state of perfection before judging others.
Why should we appreciate artists and organizers who don’t consider what we want from a party, and who don’t even pay attention to what happens during the party? If someone helps you across the road when you don’t even want to go there, should you blindly thank them or should you point out their mistake. If you do so, then perhaps next time they will be more considerate, and ask first. Perhaps not the best analogy but I’m sure you get my point.
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djfanboy
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
102
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 20:03
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(walking in the front door)
...Hey! Who kicked over this can of worms?
...damn, now they're everywhere... This is gonna take FOREVER to clean up... |
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DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 20:15
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hmm.. so darn serious, so infallible, so holy.. you people should start a church or something. then burn the heretics who disagree and don't fit in in front of the crowd at trance parties. to strengthen that feeling of community. "he who is not with us is against us."
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sensimilia
Started Topics :
0
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1
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 21:11
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i have been following this thread for a while and all i can say is that soset's attitude gives me *bad vibes*. This is *not* judgement, this is *my* feeling and *my* thought. |
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1383
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 21:20
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Quote:
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On 2004-12-13 21:11, sensimilia wrote:
i have been following this thread for a while and all i can say is that soset's attitude gives me *bad vibes*. This is *not* judgement, this is *my* feeling and *my* thought.
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You people really crack me up. And that is a judgment. hahaha
Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 22:33
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It's really funny how the word judgment has been used here. Everyone is accusing everyone else of being judgmental whilst denying their own judgmental tendencies. I actually do not think judgment is that bad as long as one does not confuse their judgment with fact, always remembers that human judgment is terribly flawed. I think we all judge, and sometimes we are right and sometimes we are wrong. What really need to do is learn to be wiser about how we use our judgments. We should just accept them as feelings but not become attatched to them so that we start demending that others agree with our judgments.
PLUR!!! |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Dec 13, 2004 23:10
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On 2004-12-13 19:28, flavorself wrote:
dopey576 ....
If you had read the whole of this thread then you would realize that it is not really about individual parties. When someone misunderstands what has been written and then proceeds to make childish or ignorant comments based on that misunderstanding, then it should be pointed out to them. It is completely irrelevant whether they are artists, organizers, or normal punters. We are all equally valid.
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eh- why muddy the waters Flavorself?
Dopey was merely making a GOOD POINT!!!
Dopey obviously knows something about the NY scene and referred to specifics. Nothing wrong with that. Dopey seemed to be saying, to me, that consumerist attitudes need some tempering when applied to trance.
Soset is full of consumerist attitude.
She acts like she's ordering a triple-nonfat-latte at $tarbux...
the crux of this thread is basically this:
Soset knows what energy parties need. The trance scene is lacking that energy. Thus we get the "sosets manifesto" thread.
Soset gets loads of attention. Any points that are made in this thread are immediately taken apart and argued with as this is basically a catchall basket for gripery and bitching- (this thread)
Here's how i think of it:
There is no little laboratory where all the elite organizers and artists just sit there planning out what they are going to dish out to the scene.
The parties and music and art are created by US for US with US in mind.
Drop the consumerist attitudes. they are bullshit. period. there is no us and them- there is only us.
Produce, create, do something.
just don't sit there and bitch.
THis is something I will tell any and everyone to their face-
I don't care about your opinion unless you are helping to co-create our future- if you are merely a whining consumer then you are merely another hater doing the hating.
period. end of story.
now some misguided hippy will probably try to take apart what I just said and critique it-
WELL DONT!!!! think about what i said because i mean it and i am right because God told me so, so there!
and NO!!!!! not all opinions are equal and not all are valid.
INFORMED opinions are worth more than UNINFORMED opinions- hence why you go to your doctor for medical diagnosis rather than your auto repair person...
and while its really easy to develop an opinion about something, its more difficult to do work and produce something for the community- to then have someone just trash it because their right to trash it is enshrined in some stupid ideal of all opinions being equal - well thats dumb and i don't agree with that... |
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