| Author
|
Soset's manifesto
|
konflux
Konflux
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
811
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 07:50
|
just ban her, will you?
isn't it to much attention for one person?  |
|
|
Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 08:27
|
>>So what exactly do you mean when you say "negative"? Please explain fully
...
First, as above, let us understand what you mean by negative. Then we can talk about why this is present or not within a true community. Also, you do not have to agree with me, I am just putting out my point, but if you don't agree with me, and comment on it, then it is only fair that you explain yourself fully<<
What do I really mean when I lable something as negative? That is a darn good question. If I could explain myself fully, believe me I would. The best I can say is this: Negative is a label for something that one considers aversive, undesirable, immoral, bad, unhealthy, unpleasant etc. It is the label we use for something we do not like. It is subjective, in the eye of the beholder. What is negative for one person is positive for another. So to say something is negative is to say "I dont like it". Does that give you a clearer idea of where Im coming from?
>>We must learn to walk before we try to run<<<
Hehe funny. That was basically my logic for starting out by talking about parties to demonstrate how I feel about the bigger issues at hand here.
>>Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you but your statements were contradictory. That's all.<<<
Thanks. I probably overreacted anyway.
and thanks for starting this discussion. I might have to post a manifesto of my own one of these days 
|
|
|
|
slyman604
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
263
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 10:05
|
no dont ban her this is great 
Soset first you should throw those J. Krishnamurti in the trash and get some U.G.
I think you hold some delusioned ideads about human nature expressed in:
"in a true community, there is no leader, because everyone plays an equally valid part in the community."
such a community would only last a few days, im not sure such a community has ever existed anyway. playing a valid part in a community means playing your role. A community that truely had no leaders would either a. be a community of all leaders, quickly turning to fighting/chaos or a community of all followers with nothing ever getting done.
"What you are all looking for is truth"
Perhaps some have understood the truth that there is no truth.
"This is why you create parties which do not have the proper energy"
What exactly is the "proper" "energy" ? Proper is a completely relative term that without question will mean something different to you than it does to me. "energy" is a pretty vague and undefinable term. That statement really has no meaning at all.
"You all seem to have some agenda which is related to your friendships, or to your own careers as djs, or even just wanting to be accepted by your peers; illusions and lies do not make a very good basis for discovering truth."
You really should try to get to one of the parties in philly. You certainly can not base your entire view of the "community" here on one party and message board comments,a party in NYC of all places.What i love most about the psytrance culture is of all the underground cultures ive been involved with psytrance has by far the least of what you mention in the quote above. However of all the US psytrance scenes NYC probly has the most of that, its NYC how could it not. If you try a party outside NYC where there just isnt as many people period, let alone psyheads you will see the main agenda is just to try to keep the scene from sinking and dieing itself.
Im not sure where your from but to try to recreate/expect whatever it was in your country is just not realistic. No body likes psytrance here with the exception of a few mental cases like ourselves. Im not even sure thats a bad thing, if you got a party outside the major cities you will see the people there that still go are REALLY into it.
I know at the parties that use to happen here someone randomly pushing drugs would have been shamed out of the venue.
Since ive never posted in the north american section before please no one take anything i say as harsh, i just really love a good arguement.
|
|
|
|
soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 15:21
|
Psycosmo -
"What do I really mean when I lable something as negative? That is a darn good question. If I could explain myself fully, believe me I would. The best I can say is this: Negative is a label for something that one considers aversive, undesirable, immoral, bad, unhealthy, unpleasant etc. It is the label we use for something we do not like. It is subjective, in the eye of the beholder. What is negative for one person is positive for another. So to say something is negative is to say "I dont like it". Does that give you a clearer idea of where Im coming from?"
It's still not too clear for me what you mean. If you don't like something, does that make it immoral, or wrong, or bad? It might be easier if you simply dropped the term negative, and instead just said, "I don't like that". More honest, more direct, and more accurate, in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 15:50
|
slyman604 -
"Soset first you should throw those J. Krishnamurti in the trash and get some U.G."
I only read the one speech and I liked the devil story. I know the things that he says from my own experience, I do not need to read any so-called guru to find out what I already know.
"such a community would only last a few days, im not sure such a community has ever existed anyway. playing a valid part in a community means playing your role. A community that truely had no leaders would either a. be a community of all leaders, quickly turning to fighting/chaos or a community of all followers with nothing ever getting done."
In a family everyone has an equally valid role, but the elder members are listened to because of respect. But they are no more important than any other member of the family. Would you call your father, your leader? No, you call him your father. A community is simply a big family.
"Perhaps some have understood the truth that there is no truth. "
Please explain this a little bit more for me. What do you mean by this?
"What exactly is the "proper" "energy" ? Proper is a completely relative term that without question will mean something different to you than it does to me. "energy" is a pretty vague and undefinable term. That statement really has no meaning at all."
I can feel what I call energy, everywhere I go. Sometimes it is suitable to the occasion and sometimes it is not. What would you call it?
|
|
|
|
Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 17:16
|
>>It's still not too clear for me what you mean. If you don't like something, does that make it immoral, or wrong, or bad? It might be easier if you simply dropped the term negative, and instead just said, "I don't like that". More honest, more direct, and more accurate, in my opinion<<<
I didnt mean to imply that negative is necessarily all those things, or that anything that is 1 of those adjetives is all of them. "OR" was the key word, I was saying all those adjetives fit under the broader category of "negative". Saying "I dont like that" probably is more clear though, it is a more accurate, objective and less dualistic way to phrase it. Semantics are important, if we dont talk like we are now, how are we supposed to understand eachother's intentions? |
|
|
|
soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 17:47
|
Quote:
|
Psycosmo:
...if we don't talk like we are now, how are we supposed to understand each other's intentions?
|
|
If we were both being totally honest in what we say, without the labels or judgements, then the communication would be crystal clear.
Quote:
|
Psycosmo:
…Saying "I dont like that" probably is more clear though, it is a more accurate, objective and less dualistic way to phrase it.
|
|
So, if you have simply used this in the beginning we could have saved a lot of time and energy and moved on to something more interesting
|
|
|
|
Surrender
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
506
Posts :
5388
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 17:50
|
i've been reading carefully every word in this "manifesto" online conversation... i believe that some points from a few diffrent people are not reaching their destination in the way the author meant them to... sometimes online words can seem cold and lackluster... i think a good idea for some who are interested is to meet face to face maybe tonight at alladin's party? (although i'm personally not gonna be there) and discuss it better. i know that when i need to talk to someone and make sure my points come across i physically show up, because body language and facial expressions along with the actual tonation of the voice play a major role in this matter.
 "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
|
|
|
soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 18:20
|
Surrender-
I would be more than glad to meet with anyone who is interested in exchanging ideas, but perhaps a party is not the most suitable occasion. However, we could arrange to meet some other time, if anybody is interested, and I would happily host the meeting.
|
|
|
|
Surrender
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
506
Posts :
5388
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 18:24
|
-soset
how about a dark alley with no witnesses? i know a good quiet place above 110th street... 
j/k in all seriousness - - soset brings some good points to the table- now that they are seperated from the party thread, the atmosphere is not so hostile and discussion is possible. i would love to be even an observer/listener in a conversation between psycosmo and soset and anyone else for that matter.
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
|
|
|
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 19:23
|
You guys should come meet at Karma on Dec. 29th. (shameless self-promotion )
|
|
|
|
Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 19:31
|
>>If we were both being totally honest in what we say, without the labels or judgements, then the communication would be crystal clear.
<<<
Are you suggesting that I am being dishonest?
>>So, if you have simply used this in the beginning we could have saved a lot of time and energy and moved on to something more interesting<<<
It's all learning process. We have to learn to communicate before going on to the really interesting stuff.
And Ill be at tonights party... We dont have to get into it about this but at least this way we can know who we're talking with. |
|
|
|
soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 19:51
|
psycosmo-
"Are you suggesting that I am being dishonest?"
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Again,If we were both being totally honest in what we say, without the labels or judgements, then the communication would be crystal clear.
That's all.
|
|
|
|
soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 20:58
|
psycosmo-
"I didnt mean to imply that negative is necessarily all those things, or that anything that is 1 of those adjetives is all of them. "OR" was the key word, I was saying all those adjetives fit under the broader category of "negative". Saying "I dont like that" probably is more clear though, it is a more accurate, objective and less dualistic way to phrase it. Semantics are important, if we dont talk like we are now, how are we supposed to understand eachother's intentions?"
By saying, If we were both being totally honest in what we say, without the labels or judgements, then the communication would be crystal clear,I was "suggesting" nothing,but simply i was giving you my opinion/answer to your question. that's all.
why do you assume that i'm "suggesting" you are being "dishonest". I can assure you that i was making no such judgment.
|
|
|
|
ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 23:12
|
Quote:
|
On 2004-12-09 15:12, soset wrote:
ocelot-
pleeease for goodness sake stay on topic.
what you doing is what i would call judgement.
|
|
No shit. I judge you to be a pain in the ass and pretty preachy too.
As IF you never judge Ms "I hate TDC"
AS IF...
get off your high horse already...
and whats up with all your recommendations for the entire trance scene???
AS IF you can make other people change.
AS IF you are perfect.
what i really wonder is why you switch voices from HarshCritic to SpiritualGuru?
have you actually ever even been to one trance party in your life ever?
take more @cid ok?
thanks |
|
|
|
|
