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Soset's manifesto
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 18:21
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| what you doing is what i would call judgement. |
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I suppose the ironing is lost on you.
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1383
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 20:10
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On 2004-12-09 18:21, basilisk wrote:
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| what you doing is what i would call judgement. |
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I suppose the ironing is lost on you.
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hahahahahahaha
great one, basilisk
 Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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digbeez
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
67
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 21:23
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what ? Whoo ?
some one went and gig to much ,,
just do your think the way how you like and dont look at the others ,, if you have clear meaning and vision you'll be hapy .
Just have fun ppl ,,,!
JUST HAVE FUN~~~~~~~~~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Seek ever to expand the mind. Never stagnate, for knowledge is a gift from the Gods. |
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flavorself
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
12
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 22:37
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I would like to tell you my definition of judgment. Judgment is when you label somebody, something that they are not. If they are indeed what you say then that is not judgment. For instance, if you call a thief, a thief, that is not judgment. However, if you make assumptions about who they are, from your own interpretation of their words or actions, then that is judgment.
Let me try this from another direction. Suppose you have a community of one, namely yourself, then, providing that you are totally honest with yourself, it is impossible to judge yourself. You can certainly inform yourself if you see yourself heading in a direction which has no value, a direction which is not true to who you are, but this is not judgment. It is care, concern, love, or respect, but it can never be judgmental. You can never, ever label yourself something that you are not, as long as you are totally honest with yourself, because then you know who you are.
Now perhaps you can extend the community to a community of two people. If each of those people is honest with themselves then they cannot fail to be honest with each other. Truth and honesty are simply love, and any relationship which is based on these properties is automatically without limit, since love knows no boundaries. Again, if you both know who you are, and trust each other, then it is impossible to judge each other. The love, the respect, the honesty simply create something in which judgment cannot even be defined.
I would hope that you can see why truth and honesty negate judgment. If you can’t then I would suggest that you take some time to think about it, since it is very important to understand this. I don’t mean an intellectual understanding, but really an intuitive understanding, a feeling, a taste of truth. This is the main ingredient, and after you have found this then you can coat it with a layer of reasoning, but reasoning alone will not suffice.
If you reach this point then it will be easy to extend your understanding to encompass the nature of a larger community, and then you will understand what has been said in this thread. Create a framework for your understanding, and find a place for each piece as it is formed.
It would be of real benefit to most of you if you were to adopt a more mature attitude, drop your judgments, listen to what is really being said, and then simply say what you truly feel. Sometimes you need to stop wasting your time and energy on the petty, trivial things in life, and concentrate on really learning something of importance. Nobody can ever teach anyone this sort of stuff, but it is always possible to give out clues, like seeds which might, even once, fall on fertile ground. That is perhaps the most satisfaction that any of us can achieve, that something we say helps even one person find their own way to understanding.
Why don’t you allow your minds to fly free for a while, and enter the discussion with an honest heart? If you don’t really understand what is being said, ask some questions, make some guesses, but above all, ensure that what you say is true to who you are. Just ask yourself if you are being truthful before you press the submit button.
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flavorself
Started Topics :
0
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12
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 22:49
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By the way, soset, please keep up the good work. Don't get too discouraged, I am sure that this thread will eventually lead to proper discussion and even understanding. |
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1383
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 02:44
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On 2004-12-09 22:37, flavorself wrote:
If they are indeed what you say then that is not judgment. For instance, if you call a thief, a thief, that is not judgment. |
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Of course that is a judgment, just a correct one. So according to you, everyone that is judged in court and convicted is convicted wrongly?
Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 03:42
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furthur-
If you call a teacher a teacher, is that also a judgement??
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 04:05
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On 2004-12-09 05:22, furthur wrote:
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On 2004-12-09 05:08, soset wrote:
Truth is not a thing, it is simply who you are.
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Who you are changes all the time.
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Let me explain myself a little more clearly. The weather changes all the time and yet it is always the weather. Does this help you to see what I am talking about?
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1383
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 04:26
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On 2004-12-10 03:42, soset wrote:
furthur-
If you call a teacher a teacher, is that also a judgement??
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It is a tautology, it adds nothing new to our knowledge and the opposite would be contradictory. I don't see the point of bringing up tautologies. A judgment should be contingent, otherwise it requires nothing special, which we call judgment or reason.
Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1383
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 04:28
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On 2004-12-10 04:05, soset wrote:
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On 2004-12-09 05:22, furthur wrote:
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On 2004-12-09 05:08, soset wrote:
Truth is not a thing, it is simply who you are.
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Who you are changes all the time.
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Let me explain myself a little more clearly. The weather changes all the time and yet it is always the weather. Does this help you to see what I am talking about?
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The weather is, by convention, a collection of all the states of the atmosphere. Yes, by that reasoning, you are also a collection of a lot of conscious states. But whose? Can you honestly tell me that you are sure that this collection is centered about something?
Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 04:39
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Psycosmo -
"Because people know what I mean when I say "negative". I want to communicate with people so I settle for using labels so that I am not stuck in my head never sharing my thoughts."
So what exactly do you mean when you say "negative"? Please explain fully.
"My point is to respond to your opinion with my opinion. My point is that I have a fundamental disagreement with your notion of community. You say it is a place without any negativity. I say it is a place that knows how to deal with negativity in a constructive way. Was that unclear from my post?"
First, as above, let us understand what you mean by negative. Then we can talk about why this is present or not within a true community. Also, you do not have to agree with me, I am just putting out my point, but if you don't agree with me, and comment on it, then it is only fair that you explain yourself fully.
"I referred to parties beacuse they are the context in which our community is forming. Therefore, talking about our community can involve talking about parties. Also I was talking about parties in general and not "the party"."
We must learn to walk before we try to run.
"I am not having trouble making up my mind. And by the way, I dont have to make up my mind if I dont want to, so I'd appreciate it if you would refrain from telling me what to do."
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you but your statements were contradictory. That's all. |
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soset
Started Topics :
1
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83
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 04:51
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further - if you have something to say please say it honestly, from your heart. I gave you the simplest, clearest example that I could. Don't just argue for the sake of argument. I am not interested in an exercise in logic or semantics.
I am interested in the exchange of ideas. And by now you should have some idea of what I am interested in.
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 05:14
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On 2004-12-09 11:45, sequencefree wrote:
in regards to community...
...I think the intention and the expression you made in beginning of this thread was genuine, and I agree with the sentiment. But stay true to it. Community ALL the time, without judgements, including right now.
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With regard to judgements within communities, or in general, please read flavorself's post which explains this very well.
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 06:10
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oops ! |
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1383
Posted : Dec 10, 2004 06:12
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On 2004-12-10 04:51, soset wrote:
I am not interested in an exercise in logic or semantics.
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That's a shame. hehe I guess you saw through me.
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On 2004-12-10 04:51, soset wrote:
I am interested in the exchange of ideas. And by now you should have some idea of what I am interested in.
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Actually, no. What kind of ideas do you want to exchange? How to set up a true "trance" community? Let's start with ourselves, and then we can move onto bigger and better things. I am still working on myself, and a better me is what will help the "community" most at this time.
I am almost positive I have missed the point, and if not, you will probably change your point. So, what is it you wanted to talk about? Don't tell me to tell your posts carefully, because they are not as self-explanatory to other people as they are to you.
FYI, I don't just want to argue for argument's sake, I feel that something might possibly be gained from all of this, and if not we will still have had fun. I am glad that we can have a discussion about our differences in a civilized manner. That is one of the first signs of a healthy community.
Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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