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Soset's manifesto
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 04:31
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offthenutboom -
".. until we all open our hearts, we lay out our souls to others truth will be hidden. In the moment you are doing the event to receive any kind of gratification, except the joy of doing what you are meant to do, the fundamentals of the party will be flawed. But I also think you are judging those who do it any other way."
I am not judging anyone, but I am pointing out what is missing from the parties, and by extension, what is missing from the so-called trance community. I have seen this at many parties and I felt it was time to say something. And I cannot ignore what is in front of my eyes. This is how I fulfill my responsibility to my fellow human beings.
"But the truth is that by saying they are doing wrong you are jumping into judging others... and I think you should lead by action and not by judgement. If you lead by judgement the result will be -ve and defensive... if you lead by action ppl will believe and follow. "
Look, if you see what I say as judgemental then, o f course, you will tend to ignore what I am actually saying, and instead look for some sort of action. But, I would say that when I point out that something is missing, then that is action. I am trying to point out that what is missing is not something trivial, but a fundamental ingredient for any successful community. All people need to be true to themselves, to be honest about every word and action, and this will automatically lead to the creation of all that they desire.
"We are also humans. Even the richest of the souls in humanity can't say never. If I know what I want and I knew how to get it, then I would know how to always make the right decision and I would never suffer. Everything would be just perfect But, since we are here in this planet, this universe, we are bound to make mistakes. The consequences of those mistakes is suffering, the doubt of taking action is fear and ignorance. "
Why do you insist that human beings are essentially imperfect and destined to suffer?. Is this some sort of religious belief that you have been fed throughout your life? This is simply not true. You would never make any mistakes if you truly knew yourself. And knowing yourself is a breath away.
"..we are ignorant beings in essence, blinded by a set of material senses, swimming in a sea of illusions and looking through a keyhole and you expect to see the whole picture"
If you continue to think of yourself in this fashion then it will be true for you. However, this is fundamentally not true. We are not blinded by anything except our own decision not to open our eyes. We are not ignorant unless we choose to be so.
"A community starts with oneself. It takes leadership, sacrifice and wisdom. It is your responsability as a leader to keep it together. But, if the leader does not have the knowledge and the community is porous, she/he should be helped and not judged. "
In a true community, there is no leader, because everyone plays an equally valid part in the community. There is no sacrifice involved since each person makes the decision to join the community of his/her free will. For instance, if someone decides to give up all his material wealth and live in some sort of austere community, then there is no sacrifice since that is what he truly wants. The wisdom is within each individual, and simply knowing what we need is wisdom enough.
Anyway, thank you very much for taking the time to read what I have written, and thank you for the thought you have obviously put into your response. This is a refreshing change from the usual. |
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 04:40
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Psycosmo -
"if people dont spit their negative feelings nothing is going to get fixed. But if negative emotions are not expressed in a compassionate way, that is not good. Communities have civil ways of expressing dissent/complaints."
For your information, I don't have any negative feelings, and in a true community there are no negative emotions or comments.
By the way, this post is really not about the party anymore, so perhaps we could spend our time discussing something more important. I would be more than happy to discuss any interesting points that you might come up with. |
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DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 04:54
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Forgive my pragmatism - or cynicism - whatever you want to call it, but this is an awful lot of words. Granted, words are valuable, and having a vision is vital, but what is truly important is the manifestation. How about some suggestions for throwing a good trance party or improving the quality of existing events? I suppose an intentional trance community somewhere in the Northwest would be nice, but you're in New York City. How are you going to go about making this a reality? Making suggestions on Isratrance goes only so far....
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DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 05:01
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pls delete this |
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 05:08
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furthur -
"Don't kid yourself. This so-called all-encompassing truth you speak of simply does not exist. Furthermore, even if it did, the moment you found it, it would cease being the truth. You create your truth for you. Yes, there is something that is all-encompassing, but it is way beyond concepts such as truth and untruth, it is both and none. "
Truth is not a thing, it is simply who you are.
"Also, I think it is sort of hypocritical to talk about "the scene" or "the community" basing yourself (as far as I understand) on 1 party, a party, which I heard had its problems, but that were not at all due to lack of effort. "
Actually, I have been to quite a few parties in New York, but with the exception of one or two indoor parties, and the outdoor parties, none of them have demonstrated the sort of ambience which I would expect from a proper trance community.
"You are the one that has to bring that proper energy to the party, the promoter must simply provide the atmosphere for it; granted, it is possible to fuck up the atmosphere so that the energy that was there originally disappears. However, this energy is in no way "created". It must be there to begin with, inside of you and everyone else. "
The promoter, and everyone else involved with organizing the party also need to have the proper energy, since they are part of it. Sometimes this doesn't seem to be the case. |
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ZeRo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
802
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 05:18
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a promoter can only do so much, he or she can bring the musiuc the deco the space and all the trimmings but the vibe is in the tribe and the tribe are the trancers. that includes organizers, dancers, artists etc. it seems to me that you entered these parties without the proper energies and therefore helped take away from the precious energy towards which we strive. how can one contribute the positive energies toward a party with such a pessimistic outlook. enjoy trance. enjoy the music. enjoy hearing it on a big system, do not compare, dance. peace soset. hopefully i will see you at a future party and we can talk more fully about this subject.
 ein chadash tachat hashemesh. there is nothing new under the sun. --kohelet. |
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1383
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 05:22
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Quote:
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On 2004-12-09 05:08, soset wrote:
Truth is not a thing, it is simply who you are.
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Who you are changes all the time.
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Actually, I have been to quite a few parties in New York, but with the exception of one or two indoor parties, and the outdoor parties, none of them have demonstrated the sort of ambience which I would expect from a proper trance community.
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Unfortunately, most of these parties never aspire to be what you and I understand by the words trance parties. Most of them are just a night out, and I see nothing wrong with that either, as long as we do have a couple "gatherings" here and there. Festivals will usually do it for you.
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The promoter, and everyone else involved with organizing the party also need to have the proper energy, since they are part of it. Sometimes this doesn't seem to be the case.
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Fine, I'll admit it, this is true sometimes. But you have to focus on those few times when the energy is positive. Almost all of the promoters who have been doing this for some time have a very good attitude, otherwise they wouldnt still be in this, if you ask me. But then again, I know next to nothing about the New York scene except for the omnitribe events, which have never disappointed, especially when it comes to the vibe of the party and the promoters.
Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1383
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 05:25
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Quote:
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On 2004-12-09 04:54, DiMiTry wrote:
I suppose an intentional trance community somewhere in the Northwest would be nice
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That would be very nice. How about it, Dima? Somewhere in Wyoming maybe. Actually, what comes to mind is a town in northern Quebec, that has been abandonned since there is no more work there; it still has an owner or something like that, who rents the whole place out. It is a whole town, a very small one, but nevertheless. It has plumbing, electricity, a shitload of place to grow food, etc. Anyone up for it?
P.S. Mods, I know this has been discussed already, but in another section of the forum, and never about a village in Northern Quebec, about an island in the tropics. Damnit, why isn't Quebec in the tropics?
Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 06:49
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>>For your information, I don't have any negative feelings<<<
I have a hard time believing that, but hey, who am I to say what happens in your mind. Negative is just a convenient label anyway.
>> in a true community there are no negative emotions or comments<<<
I beg to differ. Negative emotions and the negative comments that result are part of life. IMO, an enlightened community does not deny this, it deals with it.
The key is to find the wisdom to turn negative emotions into positive action.
>>By the way, this post is really not about the party anymore, so perhaps we could spend our time discussing something more important. I would be more than happy to discuss any interesting points that you might come up with. <<
Huh? I thought you created a "sosets manifesto" thread so that it wouldnt clog the party thread.
What could be more important to discuss than community, the key issue in this thread (IMO at least). |
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 07:16
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"...Negative is just a convenient label anyway."
"..Negative emotions and the negative comments that result are part of life"
"The key is to find the wisdom to turn negative emotions into positive action"
If you believe that the first comment is true why do you continue to use the labels? And what's your point here really?
"Huh? I thought you created a "sosets manifesto" thread so that it wouldnt clog the party thread.
What could be more important to discuss than community, the key issue in this thread (IMO at least). "
But your post kept on talking about parties. As you said, the real issue here is communities, and what they are. Please make your mind up. |
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 08:57
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>>If you believe that the first comment is true why do you continue to use the labels?<<
Because people know what I mean when I say "negative". I want to communicate with people so I settle for using labels so that I am not stuck in my head never sharing my thoughts.
>>And what's your point here really?<<<
My point is to respond to your opinion with my opinion. My point is that I have a fundamental disagreement with your notion of community. You say it is a place without any negativity. I say it is a place that knows how to deal with negativity in a constructive way. Was that unclear from my post?
>>But your post kept on talking about parties. As you said, the real issue here is communities, and what they are. Please make your mind up. <<<
I referred to parties beacuse they are the context in which our community is forming. Therefore, talking about our community can involve talking about parties. Also I was talking about parties in general and not "the party". I am not having trouble making up my mind. And by the way, I dont have to make up my mind if I dont want to, so I'd appreciate it if you would refrain from telling me what to do. |
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sequencefree
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
6
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 11:45
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in regards to community...
"It must exist all the time, in your everyday life, and it cannot exist if you continue to judge each other"
...I think the intention and the expression you made in beginning of this thread was genuine, and I agree with the sentiment. But stay true to it. Community ALL the time, without judgements, including right now.
"if the community offers to do something for people ..."
-communities exist to offer to people that which they cannot experience alone, and this is usually a positive transformation of the individual. Indeed, this board is a community, and it's purpose is therefor no different from any healhty community. I think, again, that your comments are intended to maintain that health, because anything that is impervious to criticism, that is not willing to relfect on its own nature with an open mind, is not healthy. But the intention of criticism must be to maintain that health, not infect it.
So perhaps we should not be judging soset's criticisms as harsh simply because we might not prefer to examine them. Nor, soset, should you deviate from what I think is a positve intention by not receiving critiques your statements in an open minded way.
Peace.
As plants flower,
so humans art. |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 12:49
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great tactic.
people love being called names and told what to do. |
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 15:12
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ocelot-
pleeease for goodness sake stay on topic.
what you doing is what i would call judgement. |
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grguy
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
172
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 17:48
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dammmmmmmmmmmm PPL how do U have the time to wright all this ???????
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"Make love and not war! 'Cause we don't need no trouble.
What we need is love (love)" Bob Marley
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