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Soset's manifesto
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 8, 2004 05:23
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What is the one thing that you all are looking for? Do you even know? What you are all looking for is truth, and the sad thing is that you cannot even be truthful to yourselves. This is why you create parties which do not have the proper energy. You are not able to listen to others without judging them and you deny the evidence of your own eyes. You all seem to have some agenda which is related to your friendships, or to your own careers as djs, or even just wanting to be accepted by your peers; illusions and lies do not make a very good basis for discovering truth.
If each of you were to be totally honest with yourself, free from judgement, and aware of what you see in front of you, then you would be able to create the most fantastic parties. Not only that, but you would carry your truth with your through all parts of your experience in this world. You could truly change many things for the better, you could really take the most value from your life, and give the most value to those around you. Instead, you squander these possibilities on petty judgements and squabbles.
You do not even need to try to be nice to each other. If you have to try to be nice, then you are just pretending and it is totally meaningless. What is more important is truth and honesty, nothing else, and the source of this is within you. If you can be honest with yourself then you can be effortlessly honest with, or nice to, others. In other words, if you truly know what you want, then you will never mistreat others.
You seem to think that I am only complaining about the organisers but that is not the case. I am also complaining about YOU, and if you had any sort of awareness you would have already seen this. The responsibility for your life, every part of it, rests with you. If you hand over this responsibility to others then you will never be who you can be.
You are all trying to create a "trance" community. Well you don't have any idea of what this means. There is a long history of trance within tribal cultures/communities. However, the community creates trance, not the other way round. Perhaps you should first learn how to create a community, and learn the responsibilities which go with that.
It is the people who create the community and a community cannot just exist for one night, when you all get together for a party. It must exist all the time, in your everyday life, and it cannot exist if you continue to judge each other and argue about the stupidest little things. In a community there must be something which you all have in common, something you are all looking for, and that is what actually creates the community.
A community should welcome everyone, not just those who are already within the community. A community should not judge anyone, but should love, care, and respect everyone, and everyone should feel a sense of responsibility for everyone else.
Also, if the community offers to do something for people then that promise should be fulfilled in the most honest fashion. If this is not the case, then it is the responsibility of each of you to point this out. Otherwise, the unspoken agreements which form the community are worthless, and so the community doesn't exist.
You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, “What did that man pick up?” “He picked up a piece of Truth,” said the devil. “That is a very bad business for you, then,” said his friend. “Oh, not at all,” the devil replied, “I am going to let him organize it." J Krishnamurti - Truth is a Pathless Land (1929)
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 8, 2004 05:25
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Oh, and for your information, I am fed up with being called bro, dude, mr, and dick. I am a woman and I really wonder why you all assumed that I was a man. That should also tell you something about yourselves. |
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Liquid-Vision
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
660
Posted : Dec 8, 2004 05:30
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soset I think you think too highly of yourself. I dont recall anyone being "not welcome" at a TDC party, or seeing the TDC people slacking off and chilling while everyone was having a shitty time. Anyone that analyzes the situation correctly would immediatly understand that the TDC are doing lots of hard work to throw parties, and are obviously not doing it for commercial reasons. Its expensive to throw parties, get lives to come over, pay for their hotels.airline tickets, rent a warehouse, but this is really no body's business but the TDC people, altho its really not that hard to figure out. This is really turning into a pointless argument so lets just end it. I'm sorry you had a bad time at the party, and i'm sorry you chose to blame everyone but yourself. You are the master of your fate, you cant just always expect to be entertained and served by everyone around you. No disrespect meant, and I appologize if I assumed you were a male. Peace, love, and trance.
 We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love... and then we return home. |
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Liquid-Vision
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
660
Posted : Dec 8, 2004 05:42
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OT:soset, if you dont mind me asking, what country are you originally from? i remember you speaking of a communist era in your country in a previous post of yours...
We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love... and then we return home. |
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DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : Dec 8, 2004 08:36
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Okay.. some nice words there. but I'd like to hear something concrete. How would YOU change things to make them better? penny for your thoughts..
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staticfish
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
13
Posted : Dec 8, 2004 09:02
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exactly. enough of this outright harshness - how would you change things, soset? it's one thing to complain, and another to enact a difference/change. it seems there are other issues, be it personal or not, that are severely debilitating your appreciation of people trying to foster the psy scene in the US. i don't understand how you can even begin to question or assess 'truths', 'friendships', 'agendas', or the sprit of the 'community' after attending events in a span of a few months - it seems very superficial on your part. i know absolutely no one in this scene. i attend events on my volition based on who i know is playing b/c i love the music (or don't attend if i don't like or feel comfortable with what will be presented). perhaps you can expand on your previous experiences outside of the US, to which you apparently seem to be making comparisons.
it is what is it: organizers attempting to provide music and an enjoyable environment for us in nyc. you speak of a 'long history' etc, but you must remember that the US is young, in all aspects...culturally, musically, and otherwise.
it's a vicious cycle. whilst i understand your above points, you must realize that you're feeding into the dillusion/ideology (however perceived) of which you're speaking. |
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GhregOnEarth
Phosphene
Started Topics :
30
Posts :
205
Posted : Dec 8, 2004 13:25
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soset.....you seem very passionate about enacting change for your community....this makes good promoters and parties.....I look forward to dancing at one of your parties some day.
Best of luck with your new vocation 
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soset
Started Topics :
1
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83
Posted : Dec 8, 2004 16:01
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DiMiTry - It's all in there, read it again, please. |
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 8, 2004 16:14
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staticfish -
"it's a vicious cycle. whilst i understand your above points, you must realize that you're feeding into the dillusion/ideology (however perceived) of which you're speaking."
I don't really understand what your point is here.
Also, my post is not really about the trance scene, although I used that to hang my words on. Again, perhaps you should re-read those words with a more open mind.
By the way, I can see the true picture of this so-called "trance community" with one glance. And anyone should be able to see this, if they know who they are. |
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 8, 2004 16:21
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GhregOnEarth - do you really think that I am interested in organising parties? why don't you read what I wrote, one more time?? |
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soset
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
83
Posted : Dec 8, 2004 16:22
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Liquid-Vision - please read again what I wrote. Slowly this time.
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karnaf
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
1745
Posted : Dec 8, 2004 16:54
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If anyone has anything relevant, intelegant, enlighting, mature to add, feel free.
Otherwise, plz shut up.
and think FOUR times before posting anything that might even slightly be considered offensive. am I being clear???
Please REMOVE my cellphone number from any SMS spam list you may have. Thanks.
http://www.savetherhino.org |
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
928
Posted : Dec 8, 2004 17:43
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What is the one thing that you all are looking for? Do you even know? What you are all looking for is truth, and the sad thing is that you cannot even be truthful to yourselves. This is why you create parties which do not have the proper energy. You are not able to listen to others without judging them and you deny the evidence of your own eyes. You all seem to have some agenda which is related to your friendships, or to your own careers as djs, or even just wanting to be accepted by your peers; illusions and lies do not make a very good basis for discovering truth.
Reply - I trully believe in this, until we all open our hearts, we lay out our souls to others truth will be hidden. In the moment you are doing the event to receive any kind of gratification, except the joy of doing what you are meant to do, the fundamentals of the party will be flawed. But I also think you are judging those who do it any other way. IMHO ppl have to realize for themselves, some ppl are ready and others are not. We all have a function in the big scheme of this universe, we all exist and act to fullfil a greater mission we can't see as a whole. So instead of spiralling into frustration search for like minded souls.
If each of you were to be totally honest with yourself, free from judgement, and aware of what you see in front of you, then you would be able to create the most fantastic parties. Not only that, but you would carry your truth with your through all parts of your experience in this world. You could truly change many things for the better, you could really take the most value from your life, and give the most value to those around you. Instead, you squander these possibilities on petty judgements and squabbles.
R - I will repeat myself, I do believe in this. I do believe in a true spiritual connection without attachment or judgement. Some of us are less ready, others have the gift of vision and wisdom. But, IMHO ppl do what they are suppose to do and there is a reason behind it, maybe you are the one who makes all this ppl change, maybe not. But the truth is that by saying they are doing wrong you are jumping into judging others... and I think you should lead by action and not by judgement. If you lead by judgement the result will be -ve and defensive... if you lead by action ppl will believe and follow.
You do not even need to try to be nice to each other. If you have to try to be nice, then you are just pretending and it is totally meaningless. What is more important is truth and honesty, nothing else, and the source of this is within you. If you can be honest with yourself then you can be effortlessly honest with, or nice to, others. In other words, if you truly know what you want, then you will never mistreat others.
R- I think through truth and honesty you reach love. Nice is close but no cigar Love and embracing other as they are, even if different or discordant from your perception, is the true feeling which connects us all. Aren't we all different interpretations of the same.
- We are also humans. Even the richest of the souls in humanity can't say never. If I know what I want and I knew how to get it, then I would know how to always make the right decision and I would never suffer. Everything would be just perfect But, since we are here in this planet, this universe, we are bound to make mistakes. The consequences of those mistakes is suffering, the doubt of taking action is fear and ignorance.
You seem to think that I am only complaining about the organisers but that is not the case. I am also complaining about YOU, and if you had any sort of awareness you would have already seen this. The responsibility for your life, every part of it, rests with you. If you hand over this responsibility to others then you will never be who you can be.
- But we are ignorant beings in essence, blinded by a set of material senses, swimming in a sea of illusions and looking through a keyhole and you expect all to see the whole picture. The truth is some of us are destined to remain in this ball forever with a grudge, surrounded with darkness and without hope. Only a few have the sight and run towards the light Let them follow, but don't tell them they are doing wrong.
You are all trying to create a "trance" community. Well you don't have any idea of what this means. There is a long history of trance within tribal cultures/communities. However, the community creates trance, not the other way round. Perhaps you should first learn how to create a community, and learn the responsibilities which go with that.
R- We are making a trance community to the best of our knowledge. We increase our wisdom day by day and we inch closer to the big truth that encompases all. Trance is for me a celebration that I am alive in this world full of joy. I also celebrate I have been given the site to transcend the material and understand this is only part of what it really is. I also celebrate all the beautiful ppl I have met through the years who have been a source of love and inspiration. And this celebration has to be decorated for all of our senses, not to indulge, but to give.
It is the people who create the community and a community cannot just exist for one night, when you all get together for a party. It must exist all the time, in your everyday life, and it cannot exist if you continue to judge each other and argue about the stupidest little things. In a community there must be something which you all have in common, something you are all looking for, and that is what actually creates the community.
R- A community starts with oneself. It takes leadership, sacrifice and wisdom. It is your responsability as a leader to keep it together. But, if the leader does not have the knowledge and the community is porous, she/he should be helped and not judged.
A community should welcome everyone, not just those who are already within the community. A community should not judge anyone, but should love, care, and respect everyone, and everyone should feel a sense of responsibility for everyone else.
R- 100% agreed
Also, if the community offers to do something for people then that promise should be fulfilled in the most honest fashion. If this is not the case, then it is the responsibility of each of you to point this out. Otherwise, the unspoken agreements which form the community are worthless, and so the community doesn't exist.
R- It is the duty of those involved in the for eg project to fulfill to the best of their ability. Somethings just cannot be accomplished and no one should point out anything, but lead by action to help accomplish the goal.
You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, “What did that man pick up?” “He picked up a piece of Truth,” said the devil. “That is a very bad business for you, then,” said his friend. “Oh, not at all,” the devil replied, “I am going to let him organize it." J Krishnamurti - Truth is a Pathless Land (1929)
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Dec 8, 2004 23:32
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Hey soset, glad to see someone else wants to talk about the issues. I can't say I agree with what you are saying, but Im glad to have a chance to talk about something of substance.
>>>>What is the one thing that you all are looking for? Do you even know? What you are all looking for is truth, and the sad thing is that you cannot even be truthful to yourselves. <<<
Truthful about what? If you mean truthful about the quality of a party, well, maybe people enjoy different parties than you do. You shouldnt assume that people who enjoy parties you don't are not being truthful with themselves.
>>This is why you create parties which do not have the proper energy.<<
I think that keeping an attitude that has some perspective is what creates the proper energy. The promotors and the artists only have about 50% of the job of creating a good party... the crowd has to be cool too. In my mind the proper energy would be if everybody came to the party asking themselves "what can I do to make this party a good experience for my fellow party-goers?". The proper energy is when the sound goes out due to some honest mistake and people take it in stride, dont get upset as long as the promoters are obviously doing their part to make sure everything is put right. The proper energy is when, if you are having a difficult experience you can turn to the person next to you and ask for help and get it.
>>You are not able to listen to others without judging them and you deny the evidence of your own eyes. You all seem to have some agenda which is related to your friendships, or to your own careers as djs, or even just wanting to be accepted by your peers; illusions and lies do not make a very good basis for discovering truth. <<<
Well, the way you presented your opinion did not help people listen to you... you were being inflamatory. And about being judge: how do you expect to open your mouth and not be judged? Of course people are going to judge you by what you say. As to agendas, I think complainers have agendas too. I for one am more sympathetic to people whose agenda is to help their friends than people whose agenda is to harm the reputations of people they do not like. It is called _being supportive_ and it is a good thing. Wouldnt you like people to be supportive of your efforts?
>>>>If each of you were to be totally honest with yourself, free from judgement,<<<
But if I have a judgement how can I do both?
>>>and aware of what you see in front of you, then you would be able to create the most fantastic parties. Not only that, but you would carry your truth with your through all parts of your experience in this world. You could truly change many things for the better, you could really take the most value from your life, and give the most value to those around you. Instead, you squander these possibilities on petty judgements and squabbles.
<<<<<<
No disagreement there. I try to rise above and deal with the big issues but when I take a good hard look at my life I am just as petty as everyone else. We should all work together to deal with the thing that matter and forget these petty squabbles. Not trash-talking about people or their parties might be a good start.
>>You do not even need to try to be nice to each other. If you have to try to be nice, then you are just pretending and it is totally meaningless. What is more important is truth and honesty, nothing else, and the source of this is within you. If you can be honest with yourself then you can be effortlessly honest with, or nice to, others. In other words, if you truly know what you want, then you will never mistreat others.<<<
Theres a difference between false kindness and respect. Theres no need to pretend you liked a party you didn't, but it is also good to consider the hard work that people put into parties and think about how you would feel if you worked that hard and someone went and said whatever you are about to say. There are diplomatic ways of expressing displeasure.
>>You seem to think that I am only complaining about the organisers but that is not the case. I am also complaining about YOU, and if you had any sort of awareness you would have already seen this. The responsibility for your life, every part of it, rests with you. If you hand over this responsibility to others then you will never be who you can be. <<<
Well it sure sounded like you were against the organizers. Maybe the problem is as much you being an ineffective communicator than lack of awareness? Sure I could use a lot more awareness, but I dont think that is the problem with respect to your posts. And the fact that I am responsible for my own life is why I am so focused on "being productive/constructive". If I dont like someones parties, I dont go. I have better things to do than complain unless I have some specific problem.
>>>You are all trying to create a "trance" community. Well you don't have any idea of what this means. There is a long history of trance within tribal cultures/communities. However, the community creates trance, not the other way round. Perhaps you should first learn how to create a community, and learn the responsibilities which go with that.
<<<<
I agree. Community first!
>>It is the people who create the community and a community cannot just exist for one night, when you all get together for a party. It must exist all the time, in your everyday life, and it cannot exist if you continue to judge each other and argue about the stupidest little things. In a community there must be something which you all have in common, something you are all looking for, and that is what actually creates the community.
<<<<
I agree with that too!
>>It is the people who create the community and a community cannot just exist for one night, when you all get together for a party. It must exist all the time, in your everyday life, and it cannot exist if you continue to judge each other and argue about the stupidest little things. In a community there must be something which you all have in common, something you are all looking for, and that is what actually creates the community.
<<<<
I dont get it. You say we need to say what is on our minds without any sort of moderation to peoples sensibilities, but you also say all this against judging. Judgment is human, and judgements are on peoples mind. What you said about the Boxer/Ocelot party was a judgement.
But you are correct that the community must exist outside the party, and that we should not spend so much time arguing about stupid things. We were made to fight bigger battles than the ones we currently are involved in.
>>>Also, if the community offers to do something for people then that promise should be fulfilled in the most honest fashion. If this is not the case, then it is the responsibility of each of you to point this out. Otherwise, the unspoken agreements which form the community are worthless, and so the community doesn't exist.
<<<<
I agree, if people dont spit their negative feelings nothing is going to get fixed. But if negative emotions are not expressed in a compassionate way, that is not good. Communities have civil ways of expressing dissent/complaints.
Thanks for talking about something that matters Soset!
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1383
Posted : Dec 9, 2004 00:08
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On 2004-12-08 05:23, soset wrote:
What is the one thing that you all are looking for? Do you even know? What you are all looking for is truth, and the sad thing is that you cannot even be truthful to yourselves.
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Don't kid yourself. This so-called all-encompassing truth you speak of simply does not exist. Furthermore, even if it did, the moment you found it, it would cease being the truth. You create your truth for you. Yes, there is something that is all-encompassing, but it is way beyond concepts such as truth and untruth, it is both and none.
Also, I think it is sort of hypocritical to talk about "the scene" or "the community" basing yourself (as far as I understand) on 1 party, a party, which I heard had its problems, but that were not at all due to lack of effort.
Quote:
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On 2004-12-08 05:23, soset wrote:
This is why you create parties which do not have the proper energy.
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You are the one that has to bring that proper energy to the party, the promoter must simply provide the atmosphere for it; granted, it is possible to fuck up the atmosphere so that the energy that was there originally disappears. However, this energy is in no way "created". It must be there to begin with, inside of you and everyone else.
I disagree with a lot of what you say, but I can appreciate your rebellion; now, you must make something good come out of that rebellion, and don't rebel just for its own sake.
BoOm
Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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